The Dark Knight, actual thoughts on

[cleolinda]

Well, I have a few mildly thoughtful comments, now that I've had time to process the movie. The rest is just AND THEN THAT PART! AND THAT PART!

I am beyond trying to put a value judgment on Heath Ledger's performance. I really don't know that it's possible at this point. The Joker just... is. It's hard to remember that there's an actor in there and that someone actually sat down and wrote those lines for Ledger to recite, and that the Joker didn't just show up on set one day. You know, as moviegoers, we don't get to see the times where Heath Ledger had fun and joked around on set and talked about his daughter or music or skateboarding or whatever, and then went home and started filming another movie, and moved on with his life (or what time he had left). All we have is this movie, and as far as we can tell--or at least, it's tempting to think--that one man walked into the makeup trailer and another walked out, and that the first one was never seen again. That's not what happened, and as Christian Bale points out in some interview or other, to think of it that way comes from a lack of understanding of how acting really works. But it's tempting to think.

As for the Joker himself--we discussed this in a bit more depth on padparadscha's journal (she talks about the Joker as a trickster god), but at first, I thought the last time we saw the Joker was kind of anticlimactic, until I realized that... that's how it is. He's not a person, he's a force. He doesn't have an origin, an end or a beginning. He showed up in Gotham one day and turned it upside down until he was done, and then we didn't see him anymore, but he'll never go away. There's no point to showing him being carted away in handcuffs or locked away in an asylum, no more than there is in showing how he got his Glasgow smile in the first place, and I think Christopher Nolan realized that. (By the way, my personal theory as to how he got it, since he's obviously lying about it in the movie? I think he's so goddamn crazy that he cut up his own face, just because he felt like it. And rather than a disfiguring scream, as described at the link, he laughed. Because that's just how his freak flag flies. It's as good an explanation as any, to the extent that we need one at all, which we don't.) But I was still not all that satisfied with his storyline until I realized that the last we saw of the Joker, he was hanging upside down. What I said at padparadscha's:

It was like a literal image of the Twelfth Night Lord of Misrule, when everything is reversed. (You even see specific reversals, like the clowns being the "hostages" at the end and so on.) It was also the image of the Hanged Man in the tarot deck, although that has a different meaning--usually sacrifice or submission? I don't know how much you can read into that. I guess you could argue that the Joker wants you to give in to chaos, to the temptation to stop fighting for what's right (the way he thought the people on the two ferries would give in to their worst instincts). But I don't know how well the Hanged Man aspect can be argued, when the trickster/Lord of Misrule is so much more present.

But more importantly to what you're saying, nothing happened to the Joker--I mean, we're left to surmise that law and order and/or the asylum took care of him, but there's no point in Nolan showing that because he just... is. He's a force, not a person. He's literally above the law.

Aaron Eckhart has such a different role that I'm not sure I can compare the two performances--we are looking at one character who is the very essence of unchanging and unexplained and unceasingly scary (which is a hard enough tapdance to keep up), and another who has this epic character arc of changing from hero to villain. I mean, I'm sure it's been done before, but I can't think of another role offhand with such a tragic 180-degree tumble from one to the other. We're talking about a guy who goes from being the tough-on-crime savior of the city to a man who thinks that killing a young child would somehow be the answer to his own grief. I mean, damn. And there's a point where Harvey Dent is as scary as the Joker, if not more so--maybe because we do understand him.

One of the things that surprised me, though, was the realization that this was a two-villain movie, not just The Joker Is Bad, Let's Set Up the Next Movie's Villain in the Last Ten Minutes. No, Two-Face was the other villain, the second third or so of the movie was his, and his ultimate fate (and what it meant for Batman) was what the movie was about, not deferred for a third movie. In that sense, The Dark Knight is about a man--well, let's shift back to Bruce/Batman for a moment--a vigilante who finds someone he himself comes to believe in, a legitimate hero he's ready to hand his mantle over to, and then he finds out that maybe the world is such an ugly place that things that are good and beautiful can't stay pure, can't survive. He's already too compromised to be a hero--so he'll have to be an antihero, he'll have to take the fall, so that no one good and clean and pure gets eaten up instead. Poor Bruce, who just wanted to try to get on with his life and step down the way he was supposed to and be with Rachel. I'm sorry, I just have something in my eye, I'll be over here for a little while.

(God bless Christian Bale, who is getting very little attention in the reviews. And I love him, and I think he's the best Batman so far, but... the Batman Voice is getting a little silly. And yet I appreciate the effort, because with the others, you wonder how no one figured out Batman's true identity. At all. Ever. I mean, Vicki Vale slept with the guy and she can't even recognize Michael Keaton's voice? Come on.)

As for the rest of the cast, I always enjoy watching Morgan Freeman inform someone that they've been pwned. And I always look forward to Cuddly Gary Oldman. I knew they couldn't kill off Gordon (NOOOOO! Y SO SIRIUS, GARY OLDMAN?) but then he kept not coming back and I got scared. And then I remembered that I hadn't seen half his scenes in the trailer yet (whew). On the other hand, I am stunned that Richard Who Never Ages Batmanuel Nestor Carbonell made it through to the end of the movie.

(Was that actually Cillian Murphy as the Scarecrow? Someone told me beforehand that it wasn't, so when the Scarecrow actually showed up, I was like, "That guy totally has the crazy eyes, but yeah, they're not quite the same, and his voice doesn't sound right. Too American?" But on IMDB, it says it was Murphy. So... what?)

Random thoughts:

>> My favorite part of the movie had to be the long chase sequence where they were transferring Harvey Dent to county jail (right? I got lost in the awesome around there), in no small part because I was convinced that shit was going to go down (obviously), but that it could go down from any direction. The SWAT guy inside the van with Dent kind of looked like Heath Ledger around the eyes, so I started freaking out that it was the Joker under the mask, until of course he actually showed up ("Is that a bazooka?" ). And then the Batpod was what was left of the CAR? And he flipped THE TRUCK? And it was AWESOME? That whole section is pretty much the one reason I want to see the movie in IMAX, because I'm pretty sure everything else will just make me throw up, but that? That I want to see.

>> And I am always happy to see William Fichtner. Particularly if he has a shotgun.

>> You know what freaked my audience out the worst? Not the "magic trick." The part where Batman dropped Sal Maroni, and he landed on his ankles and YOU SAW THEM GO CRUNCH. OH MY GOD WE ALL SCREAMED.

>> The scene where Bruce and "Natasha" or whoever joined Rachel and Harvey for dinner? Yeah. I think by the end of it, Bruce and Harvey were, like, in love. Which just makes the end of the movie sadder oh God.

>> The part where Dent and Gordon stand there on the roof bitching at each other while Batman just stands here cracked me up. Because of course he has this severe glower on his face, because with that mask on, he can't really do anything else, so it was just like, "YOU GUYS, I AM A VERY BUSY SUPERHERO SO WHY DON'T YOU JUST CALL ME WHEN YOU'RE DONE."

>> I was spoiled for the Joker in the nurse's costume, dammit. I wasn't spoiled for him waddling outside and futzing with his detonator, though. Or his Harvey Dent sticker (big laugh from our audience). Or the Joker taking off his nurse wig like he just couldn't stand it anymore, which cracked me up for some reason. Hee.

>> Tiny Lister was awesome. "I'm gonna do what you shoulda done ten minutes ago." Damn, that was hardcore. And I never thought I'd say that about a scene about not blowing people up.

>> The part about Batman blithely violating everyone's civil liberties with the cellphone scanner didn't bother me, and you know why? Maybe Nolan was assuming too much of the audience, but I felt like we were supposed to react with dismay, he assumed we would in the current political climate (where even Republican candidates don't want anything to do with Bush), and he didn't want to oversell it. He would simply show Batman doing it, have President God Morgan Freeman object, and the rest of us would go "OH BATMAN NO." Although, strangely, I did not get that feeling about Batman going to Hong Kong and simply kidnapping that guy (Lao?). Um. You realize that was a bad thing you did, right, Batman? Against international law and such? Kind of indefensible? I'm just checking.

>> The end about Batman taking the fall for what Harvey did and having to go on the run made me so sad, and yet I feel like it was foreshadowed by a late chunk of Batman Begins, where the freakout fear powder or whatever it was makes people see him as a terrifying monster. That said, I thought Gary Oldman's final monologue was a bit much, if only because I am very against books and movies actually mentioning their own titles, much less as the last line. I kept waiting for his poor kid to be like, "Dad? I just wanted to know why they're all being so mean to Batman. Look, it's been a long day and I'm still getting over being kidnapped by Crispy down there, can we go home now?"

Comments

[chaos-slave.livejournal.com]

Ok so I haven't seen the movie yet and as I get older the more easily I am squicked. Is the ankle breaking scene really that bad or just unexpected?

[cleolinda.livejournal.com]

It's probably more that it's unexpected and that the sound effects are really icky. It's really just a medium-wide shot or so, Nolan isn't even really trying to hit it home. But if you go see the movie and you get the part where the guy says, "That drop won't kill me," and Batman says, "I'm counting on it," CLOSE YOUR EYES.

[nimlotbradamant.livejournal.com]

OMG YES to the Batman glowering at Police Domestic. I was laughing so hard.

And when Batman drops Maroni and we get icky fullscreen leg-breakage, and even then Maroni is all, "Joker's still scarier!" That was brilliant.

And then the bit where Batman is 'interrogating' the Joker and it's OMG SO DISTURBING because Joker's on the receiving end of some serious violence and he's laughing, he's laughing. And the sound's turned up so loud in the cinema that the sound alone of all the gunshots and punches are making me whimper.

I loved that it was this whole chess game between the Dark Knight and the Joker, for the soul of the White Knight. That was some serious moral inquiry going on. I loved that I haven't even thought about whether it was any good as a movie--I just got straight on to the philosophy behind it. It was fascinating.

Too right about Bale not getting the love he deserves. Also, not shirtless enough. And am I the only one not complaining about the Batman voice? I think it's a great, effective disguise, and besides, it makes me drift off into a happy land where I am married to him. I must have missed huge chunks of dialogue that way.

[cleolinda.livejournal.com]

I like the Batman voice in theory, but in execution it gets a little over the top, I don't know. But the fact is, I'd rather him have it than not, because it's ridiculous to think that no one would notice it was Bruce Wayne. You know, particularly someone like Dent, who KNOWS HIM.

And then the bit where Batman is 'interrogating' the Joker and it's OMG SO DISTURBING because Joker's on the receiving end of some serious violence and he's laughing, he's laughing.

The absolute pinnacle of that whole scene for me was when he was saying, "There is nothing you can threaten me with, even with all your strength." Just because here he was, getting his ass beat in a locked room with no way to get out, but now that he's mentioned Dent and Rachel and they'll die if he doesn't talk, he's got all the power.

Oh, except that "I don't want to kill you!" was also awesome.

[reannon.livejournal.com]

May I quote you on some of this? It may eventually end up in print.

[cleolinda.livejournal.com]

Oh wow, sure. If you need to attribute it to a "real" person rather than just "LJ user cleolinda," "Cleolinda Jones" works fine.

(I'm curious--which part, generally speaking? I mean, I can't imagine it was anything under Random Thoughts.)

[ironclad1609.livejournal.com]

I am glad to see you were confused about the Joker's stories about how he got his smile as well or that he simply made up a few.
My friend and me couldn't agree on it either.

I thought he said, to the black guy IIRC, that his dad cut his mum in a similar way when he was smaller, but that he, the Joker, was married and cut himself to make his (depressed or something) wife smile again by putting a constant smile on his face. My friend says his dad cut the Joker.

Also, why did the black leader guy drop like dead without the Joker cutting him? I must have missed something there, as well.

Cute moment of the day: Little boy in the audience after the truck flipped over: "Ouch, that gotta hurt!"
Gotta love Americans bringing children that should not even see such films yet. But hey, going to the movie theater near the US air base was my only chance to see this 3 or 4 weeks before it comes out here ;)

[meredithsg.livejournal.com]

The story he told the mob boss (or mini boss, as it seemed he didn't really have that many people) was that his father had taken away a knife from his mother and cut him. The story he told Rachel was about cutting himself to make his wife feel better.

[chez-amanda.livejournal.com]

That looked like Cillian Murphy to me. *shrug*

Oh god the part with the ankles!! *flails* That was definitely worse than the pencil thing. Honestly, the pencil thing was cool in a sick, fucked up way. Come to think of it, my friends and I clapped...

[ninepointfivemm.livejournal.com]

Yeah, it was definitely Cillian to me.

[godream.livejournal.com]

Heh. The cell phone thing didn't bug me either, for two reasons --
1) I felt like by having Freeman question the morality of it and then be satisfied, that was enough. Like we-the-audience can proxy our moral compass into him.
2) Being an engineer-type, I was waaaay too distracted being like "wait, that wouldn't work! glass is only transparent to light, not sound!" :p

[starlady42.livejournal.com]

"YOU GUYS, I AM A VERY BUSY SUPERHERO SO WHY DON'T YOU JUST CALL ME WHEN YOU'RE DONE."

ICONNNNNNN PLS. :)

[cleolinda.livejournal.com]

Heh. I have a still from the wrong angle--from behind Batman, which makes it no fun--but I'll see what I can find. Maybe a text-only icon with some fun fonts or something.

[meredithsg.livejournal.com]

There are lots of things I'm still digesting from the movie, but something really has me in circles at this point is did Batman really think the Joker would give him the correct addresses, and did he actually intend to rescue Dent and hope the police made it in time.

Without Dent to continue his crusade and be the white knight for the city, Bruce would have to continue to be Batman and would lose Rachel. So not matter what his choice, he would lose Rachel. I think if Dent hadn't been injured like that he would have been less likely to go over the edge.


On different note, I seem to be one of the only people I've talked to who heard the catwoman reference. When discussing whether the new suit would stand up to dogs Lucien makes a point of staying it could withstand cats. These movies are so well scripted I just don't think something like that would slide in there without meaning.

[jcipa.livejournal.com]

That's exactly what I thought. You don't see Batman going, "Oh no, I meant to get Rachel!" or anything. Unless it was made more clear with the addresses later?

[laddical.livejournal.com]

On the other hand, I am stunned that Richard Who Never Ages Batmanuel Nestor Carbonell made it through to the end of the movie.

You don't mess with Senor Senior, Jr.

[mustang-bex1126.livejournal.com]

HA! Love, LOVE all these Nestor Carbonell shout outs... I saw him at Disney Land last year and was like, holywtfbatman about it because he LOOKED THE SAME AS HE DID ON JUST SHOOT ME?! lol Also, was nice.

[gabsy.livejournal.com]

Yeah, that cillian Murphy cameo was very small. As a cameo is supposed to be, I guess, but still!

Imax is definitely worth it. I think I'll go see it again when the fever dies down a tiny bit.

[chris-walsh.livejournal.com]

As a continuity geek, I was happy that the film went to the trouble of bringing Cillian back for his cameo, even with me being het and not likely to go OMG HOT. (I was happily watching Maggie Gyllenhaal for the OMG HOT reaction.)

Top to bottom, great cast, even in the smaller roles (TINY LISTER SO AWESOME OMG). I have a bit of a soft spot for Eric Roberts, thanks to his 80s films Mask and Runaway Train, so I'm glad to see him in a good movie again. Yay for Anthony Michael Hall, too! My Dead Zone-loving sister-in-law will be glad he's there, too.

[crumpeteer.livejournal.com]

Was anyone else's heart just broken when Bruce starts going on about how Rachel was going to wait for him when we all KNOW she wasn't? It's like he's grasping for that last straw of hope and normalcy and everyone with me was all "OMG TAKE THE LETTER ALFRED! TAKE THE LETTER AND RIP IT IN TINY PIECES!!!" Some things are even too hardcore for Batman to handle.

[ninepointfivemm.livejournal.com]

YES.

I didn't notice he put the letter on Bruce's breakfast and then removed it after Batman was like, "SHE WAS GOING TO WAIT FOR ME."

I noticed him lighting it on fire and didn't even remotely think it was The Letter. *sigh*

[raanve]

Oh, and! How clever was that flipping the shot thing so that the Joker appeared upright during that last conversation? SO CLEVER. I was way impressed, which is weird because I think that Nolan's pretty impressive to start, but I was actually almost surprised.

That and keeping the bulk of the serious visceral violence just off screen to maintain the (already questionable) PG-13 rating. Pretty darn clever. And effective. [ETA: By "effective" I mean that it made the violence even more cringe-worthy for me, by leaving a lot of it to the imagination. Nothing ruins a visceral reaction quite like screwed up or slightly off SFX .]

[cleolinda.livejournal.com]

How clever was that flipping the shot thing so that the Joker appeared upright during that last conversation?

I LOVED THAT. It's such a simple, obvious solution that you almost wouldn't think of it. And it has such nice symbolic resonance as well--even when he's helpless, he's still got his "ace in the hole." Visually, though, I just loved his coat fluttering over his head. It was such a simple thing, but for some reason it was just so fantastic to me. And also, that Heath Ledger was able to keep up the crazy-glee while hanging upside down for extended periods of time.

[dwg.livejournal.com]

I always associated the Joker with the Fool card -- traditionally a jester is the one person who gets to say and do things that ordinary people don't. They remind kings that they are mortal and fallible just like everyone else. And this is one of the reasons why I want a Joker card tattooed on either my hip or forearm, as the Fool is how I want to try and live my life; fun yet wise (I also want an Ace of Spades to represent the Death card, as change and new things are also awesome). The Joker pretty much does that with our heroes -- whether or not they want to hear it, he's the one telling them that no matter how good they are, no matter how idealistic they get about Gotham's potential, there's always that niggling shadow aspect waiting to come out. In the case of Dent, he completely gave in and became Two Face (LA LA LA I AM STILL IN DENIAL ABOUT HIS DEMISE) while Batman endured and thus becomes the Joker's other half as he so eloquently points out in his final monologue while hanging upside down.

Cuz the thing is, the Joker won this round. He might have been captured or whatever, but he did his damage and served his purpose; Dent fell from grace and Batman is hunted and hated by the people he was there to help. This is why I feel like even if Heath hadn't sadly passed away, he might not want to reprise the role later. It is truly a stand alone tour de force in both acting and the whole storyline.

As for the rest, I spent the movie being all, "OMFG EEE YAY NOES!" because like you, I thought the Joker was going to be the one driving the prison transport van, at least until he turned up and then I thought oh, it's a minion driving and the other dude is going to die any minute now but OH NO IT'S GORDON OMG YAY! And I never wanted to hug Gary Oldman harder than in that moment. I'm pretty sure he gives awesome hugs.

WILLIAM FICHTNER WITH A SHOTGUN. Never stops being awesome. Gah, this whole movie made my brain hurt in such a good way. And I really, really need to go back and see it again so I can A) geek out more and B) have deeper thinky-thoughts about what's going on. I may need to re-read The Killing Joke and try not to wibble too hard. (I really, really want Heath's purple suit with the green vest and oh, his adorable socks).

[cleolinda.livejournal.com]

Hee! I loved his socks too. I felt really dumb for being like YAY SOCKS, though, when everyone else was like OH SHIT HE'S GOT A RAZOR ON HIS SHOE.

[katiekins.livejournal.com]

I am so glad you brought in the trickster god/Lord of Misrule piece.... The Joker embodies the carnivalesque for all of Gotham, and at the same time that they're terrified, I think the anarchy must be a teeny bit appealing as well. Plus, it makes sense that an "outlaw hero," who is outside all forms of legal/regulated justice, is the only one who can even come close to stopping a villain of utter chaos.

Also? I totally want a "Y SO SIRIUS" icon.

[cleolinda.livejournal.com]

I saw a few around ONTD before the movie came out, so it was the first thing I thought of in terms of not wanting Gary Oldman to movie-die again.

[coconut-zebra.livejournal.com]

Dryponder's livejournal had a really interesting discussion about the dualities in the movie, particularly between the Joker and Batman. He pointed out the Joker's lack of origin too, as a contrast with Batman's very important origin. It was a pretty interesting read.

And I had issues with Gary's monologue, too. I think I would have liked it better if it was just a voiceover, and not cutting back to Gary all misty-eyed and noble.

[lostieborden.livejournal.com]

'Y SO SIRIUS' totally needs to be an icon.

[duncanatrix.livejournal.com]

PLEASE!

[duncanatrix.livejournal.com]

(NOOOOO! Y SO SIRIUS, GARY OLDMAN?)

^Win.

Also: yes, it was Cillian Murphy--I looked at him, because I had read something about his cameo being a "waste" in the First Poor Review OMG, and honestly there WASN'T much point to it, except to show that...well, in my opinion, to let you know that even though Batman is trying his best to clean up Gotham, it won't ever really be clean? I could probably articulate that better if I tried. But yeah, it's him.

Also in re: the Joker--he actually has a line near the end where he tells Batman "This is what happens when an unstoppable force meets an immovable object." That sums it up, really. The unstoppable force, crime, personified in the Joker, is in constant struggle with the immovable object, which is the force of good personified in Batman. There's a lot of symbolism there.

[cleolinda.livejournal.com]

"This is what happens when an unstoppable force meets an immovable object."

Oh, I loved that line. I really felt like it was the point where the movie was acknowledging that it wasn't going to be about what happened to the Joker; he wasn't something that could be stopped or ended. And the "immovable" part is such a good way of leading up to the way Batman chooses to "endure."

[cleojones.livejournal.com]

William Fichtner :)

He will always be the hot BGILF, from Contact, for me.

...What?

[girlalmighty]

I loved the Joker's speeches. That's weird for me, because I usually hate long speeches -- they just don't feel right, and Gordon's closing monologue is a strong case-in-point there -- but his were brilliant. Just, the questions he brings up and the morality issues, I loved it. The audience I saw it with totally loved him, too. No matter how terrifying he got, he still made everyone laugh, albeit somewhat nervously at times ("Ahahahaha, heeeeeelaaaarious, pleasedon'thurtme!").

What really captured me in the movie, though, was Harvey Dent. I think I must be one of the very few people who didn't know what would happen to him going in. I mean, I recognized his name but could not for the life of me remember why. That was such an intense and believable downward spiral. It broke my heart. I think I actually fell a little in love with him after he became Two-Face, sort of all "NOOOOOOOOO, Haaarveeeeeey, come baaaack."

[ninepointfivemm.livejournal.com]

I knew what was going to happen to him, and I still loved him as a character. I looooed how Aaron Eckhart played him.

[spectralbovine.livejournal.com]

But I was still not all that satisfied with his storyline until I realized that the last we saw of the Joker, he was hanging upside down.
And how awesome was that shot, with his coat FALLING UPWARD??

And there's a point where Harvey Dent is as scary as the Joker, if not more so--maybe because we do understand him.
Oh, totally. They were both terrifying in their own way.

(God bless Christian Bale, who is getting very little attention in the reviews. And I love him, and I think he's the best Batman so far, but... the Batman Voice is getting a little silly. And yet I appreciate the effort, because with the others, you wonder how no one figured out Batman's true identity. At all. Ever. I mean, Vicki Vale slept with the guy and she can't even recognize Michael Keaton's voice? Come on.)
Hee. Many agree. I almost laughed when Batman and Two-Face had a scene together because it was like BATTLE OF THE GROWLY VOICES.

I always enjoy watching Morgan Freeman inform someone that they've been pwned.
Ha ha ha, yes, I was waiting for him to bust out with a "motherfucker" there.

And then I remembered that I hadn't seen half his scenes in the trailer yet (whew).
I thought maybe they'd been cut or something! I really thought they'd offed him.

And then the Batpod was what was left of the CAR? And he flipped THE TRUCK? And it was AWESOME? That whole section is pretty much the one reason I want to see the movie in IMAX, because I'm pretty sure everything else will just make me throw up, but that? That I want to see.
Oh man, that scene was so full of awesome.

You know what freaked my audience out the worst? Not the "magic trick." The part where Batman dropped Sal Maroni, and he landed on his ankles and YOU SAW THEM GO CRUNCH. OH MY GOD WE ALL SCREAMED.
Eeeergh, that was sweet. I can't remember whether we cringed or laughed or both for that one. There were a lot of scenes like that, where you're not sure whether to laugh or not because it's so horrible.

"YOU GUYS, I AM A VERY BUSY SUPERHERO SO WHY DON'T YOU JUST CALL ME WHEN YOU'RE DONE."
Ahahahaha.

I was spoiled for the Joker in the nurse's costume, dammit. I wasn't spoiled for him waddling outside and futzing with his detonator, though.
Hee, that cracked our audience up. I mean, it was harder to take him seriously in that outfit. But then he BLEW UP THE ENTIRE HOSPITAL AND LEVELED IT TO THE DAMN GROUND AND IT WAS LIKE WTF.

Although, strangely, I did not get that feeling about Batman going to Hong Kong and simply kidnapping that guy (Lao?). Um. You realize that was a bad thing you did, right, Batman? Against international law and such? Kind of indefensible? I'm just checking.
Right?? That didn't seem to ping anyone.

I kept waiting for his poor kid to be like, "Dad? I just wanted to know why they're all being so mean to Batman. Look, it's been a long day and I'm still getting over being kidnapped by Crispy down there, can we go home now?"
Hee. I didn't mind that he eventually used the term "Dark Knight," especially because they'd referred to Dent as the White Knight.

[celtic-songster.livejournal.com]

GOOD LORD THE HOSPITAL BIT KILLED ME! I was so floored when he had that brilliant moment of blowing up half the building and then shaking the detonator, as if to say WTF are the batteries dead? AND THEN THE ENTIRE REST OF THE HOSPITAL KAPOWED LIKE A SMALL NUCLEAR BLAST and the Joker is pleased.

That was amazingly controlled acting right there.

[swordmage.livejournal.com]

I liked it. It was good.

But dear god, and I suspect this is an unpopular opinion in some circles, I didn't think it was the second coming of film.

Ledger was quite good. But I wasn't quite as unsettled as I was expecting to be.

*shrug* Enjoyable in the end. Will definitely be getting it on DVD>

[lunylucy.livejournal.com]

The part where Dent and Gordon stand there on the roof bitching at each other while Batman just stands here cracked me up.

Ahaha, absolutely, that scene cracked me up as well. It's like Batman was "Hellooo? I'm still here you guys."

The cellphone thing didn't bother me that much either :/ I think because the situation was grave enough? And it's Batman and you knew he'd get rid of it pretty soon.

[rosewood39.livejournal.com]

i love your thoughts on batman, exactly what i thought. he has to do this because the good guys can't. great summary/review.

[padparadscha.livejournal.com]

The Batman Is Watching You, Always Watching scene didn't bug me as much because he's fucking Batman. He's totally allowed to watch me in the bathroom. No one else is, but he's BATMAN.

I had a similar theory on the scars, actually. It just seemed like something he'd do because HE CRAZY.

[cleolinda.livejournal.com]

I think one of the reasons "he did it to himself" is such an appealing theory is because it would diminish the Joker to find out that someone else did it to him. You don't ever want to think of him, or this Joker (trickster-god!Joker, if you will), anyway, as someone who was abused, or even had a childhood at all, for that matter. It's like you want to imagine him springing fully formed from the earth or something. I'd say you wouldn't want to imagine someone else in control of him (well, you wouldn't, which is why it probably would have also diminished him to actually see him permanently in jail), but in a way... you know the robbery at the beginning, how it appeared like he totally didn't see William Fichtner coming at all and almost got his ass handed to him? I mean, you see him scurry behind a counter like it was a total surprise. And that other clown nearly shot him, too, and I think he was saved only by the bus crashing through the wall. He has plans, but I do think he does just try to set chaos in motion to an extent, and if he got hurt or killed in the course of that chaos (like if Dent had actually shot him in the hospital), he'd be more like "Well played!" than anything. So it's like, I don't want to ever find out that someone else had control over him, but I can accept that the events he himself set into motion could spin out of his control, and I think he could, too.

[chris-walsh.livejournal.com]

My favorite part of the movie had to be the long chase sequence where they were transferring Harvey Dent to county jail (right? I got lost in the awesome around there), in no small part because I was convinced that shit was going to go down (obviously), but that it could go down from any direction.

I watched that sequence half-turned in my seat, ready to cringe away from the screen. Especially when the helicopter gets trapped. Oh my God. A lot of this film is impressively tough to watch. (And like someone else commmenting, I noticed how there's almost no blood, but the film's brutal just the same.)

Did you spot the makeup-less Heath Ledger among the cops when the parade gets fired upon?

[cleolinda.livejournal.com]

I did! I had actually seen a leaked still of that shot a few months earlier, so I was looking for it during that scene.