(no subject)

[cleolinda]

All right--you guys may or may not have noticed this about me yet, but I'm a little obsessive-compulsive (no!) and I tend to go from ig'nant to expert, or at least obsessive, in about sixty seconds. I couldn't sleep last night (you know how it is when you're sick--you can tell you're getting well because suddenly you can't sleep around the clock anymore), so I pulled up The Phantom of the Opera on Project Gutenberg and read the whole thing, which was totally awesome. Of course, I'm big on nineteenth-century lit and I guess just about anything would seem like a page-turner after the dense poetics of Paradise Lost. Anyway. I also spent a good bit of time on the movie's official website, so I have a pretty good idea of how much of the book plot made it into the musical (and thank God Andrew Lloyd Webber ditched the torture chamber, y'all, because I was about to tear my hair out after three chapters of that shit). I'm still trying to figure out why in the world they hired Joel Schumacher to direct it, but I'm pretty much figuring at this point that the movie's going to be either fabulous or godawful, and either one will be awesome. Well, awesome from the perspective of a newcomer who isn't emotionally attached to the property, but then, I'm sure there will be riots in the streets no matter how the movie turns out (see also: Harry Potter fans who hate the movies).

There's one problem I can spot offhand, however, and that is letting a hot guy play the Phantom. I noticed in the last entry, the one with the photo captions, how the Phantom fans among y'all were disconcerted by this, and I didn't really understand why until I read the book. In the book, the Phantom's hideous. I don't quite know how this works out, but he's, like, "made of death." Like, a walking living corpse or something. Smells like death, bony hands, grody face, etc. And every time Raoul gets jealous, Christine's like, Dude, you saw the guy, are you kidding me? By the end of the book, the best she can muster is abject pity for Erik, even though she's managed to pretend that she "loves him for himself" so as to regain her freedom. But faced with the prospect of marrying him so he doesn't blow Raoul, the Paris Opera, and several hundred people sky high, she tries to kill herself, while tied up, by bashing her head against the wall over and over.

Now, without having seen the musical, I can tell you just the same that I'm pretty sure the book Phantom has fuck-all to do with the show Phantom, because millions of fans wouldn't be in love with him if he were all, you know, necrotic and stuff. Book Phantom does not have the cute little half mask; Book Phantom doesn't look spiff in formal wear. If we're talking about Musical Phantom, we've basically got a guy with an underground palace and a gorgeous voice who's willing to worship this girl and make her the greatest singer in the world. Raoul? Is cute. Okay, okay--he's also nobility, but (in the book, at least) he and his brother make all these snippy comments about "giving an opera wench his name," which is so not on. So the nobility thing is both a pro and a con and therefore sort of cancels itself out. And yeah, childhood attachment, okay, that's nice. But he also acts pretty childishly throughout the book (the book is great with this, by the way, and notes at one point that he says something so asinine to Christine that he can't think of any way out of it other than "to keep being odious"), so he's not sophisticated or worldly or mature--another point for the Phantom. So, in conclusion, Raoul: cute, and won't tie you up (woe). Do you see the problem we now have if the Phantom is also hot? Raoul is basically outclassed on every level except for the whole "actually lets you walk around freely above ground now and then" thing, and I'm willing to bet you pretty much don't care about that if you're in the thrall of this guy. I mean, the musical already undermines Raoul by letting Erik be just a little disfigured instead of the walking maw of fetid death, and if you cast a hot guy, you've just thrown the entire dynamic out of whack.

I mean, not that I won't be there with bells on, but still.

And then I went and downloaded some Whitesnake (shut up, man--Kingdom of Loathing got me all nostalgic), so now I totally associate the Phantom of the Opera book with "Is This Love." (And it fits, y'all. Shut up.) Man, I totally miss Baz Luhrmann. He needs to come back and make some more movies. He would rock a Phantom of the Opera movie (from the book, not the musical) with nothing but '80s music. Man--you know, the more I think about it, the more awesome I am convinced that would have been. Come back, Baz!

Comments

[malinaldarose.livejournal.com]

You might also enjoy Phantom (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0440211697/qid=1101578944/sr=8-3/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i3_xgl14/002-2546970-2729619?v=glance&s=books&n=507846) by Susan Kay.

[lacrimaeveneris.livejournal.com]

great. book.

Have you read Maskerade? FUNNY.

[jonquil.livejournal.com]

Baz L. is currently working on yet another Alexander movie. Go figure.

[cleolinda.livejournal.com]

Last I heard, Nicole Kidman (who was to play Olympia) had said he'd given up on that.

[tselmende.livejournal.com]

Good grief, you're right. It does kill some of the belivability of the movie...unless they fix it in the personalities of the characters, I'd rather take the dark and mysterious Phantom. (I mean, he'll give you about as much freedom as the nobility from that time would...and he's less likely to be dallying with the kitchen staff when he gets bored...) True, he's a madman, but at least he's your madman.

[cleolinda.livejournal.com]

See, exactly. It's like they're making "Beauty and the Beast" without the beast.

[lacrimaeveneris.livejournal.com]

Gerard Butler= young, attractive man with funny mask
Phantom/Erik= masked man old enough to be Christine's father

...

*facepalm*

But it still looks good. But there will be grevious injury inflicted on Butler groupies. *sigh*

-Omm, hardcore Phantom phan.

[wtfbrain.livejournal.com]

Mmmm, Gerard Butler. *drools*

I'm sorry, you were saying?

I gotta go with you on this one, though. You're absolutely right about Raoul being outclassed by HotGuy!Musical!Phantom, and that it definitely goes against the book. And thanks for the reminder about Project Gutenberg, because I'd totally forgotten about that.

[girlalmighty]

Ya Project Gutenberg E-text! Yay quick obsession! And yay Baz! It would be so awesome if he'd do that.

And you've definitely noted the Big Problem. Erik shouldn't be hot. It's just not right. Now, the way my friends and I figured out the Erik vs Raoul thing, and why it's such a big deal to Christine-in-the-musical is this:

Raoul has position and his money can help further her career (he's referred to as being a patron at one point). He's known her since she was little and knew her father — her father meant the world to her, and so anything connecting her to that time is going to be precious to her. And he adores her. He can be a little out of it (ha ha) and he can be an utter moron, but he also loves her completely and is willing to do idiotic things like get tortured for three chapters to save her. And clearly, to a girl who says "He would murder for me" like it's a good thing, that's important. So Raoul's everything she wants except he doesn't understand her passion for her music. He knows she's really, really, really GOOD, but he doesn't quite understand what it means to her.

The Phantom, on the other hand, totally understands her passion. And he can make her even better than she is. Throw in some weird stuff where in she has an Electra complex and seems to think he might be her father. So Raoul is everything she could want minus an understanding of her passion — but Erik is the one who gets music, which is such a part of who she is.

Whee! I'm not obsessed! Really! I'm totally not playing Christine in a modernized rolplay or anything like that!

[girlalmighty]

P.S. I can't believe you read the whole book last night. Cleo, you crazy, girl. Of course, I mean that in the best possible way — I'm impressed.

[fiveforsilver]

I just had a big conversation on lj last evening about the movie versus the stage production. I haven't read the book, I admit, though I've read a couple other (not too bad) books of the same story - including Phantom, which linithiliel mentioned.

...

So I had this whole comment written up about how a lot of the guys who have play Phantom were attractive, but the makeup worked to make them look ugly...and hen I looked at the picture you linked to. You have got to be kidding me! I'm with you, now - what happened to the whole "so ugly she screams and faints" bit?!

Anyway. Before I looked at that picture, what bothered me most about the new movie is the fact that Gerard Butler cannot sing for shit. I assume that part is also in the orginal book? The part where the Phantom has the angelic singing voice? Have you listened to the clips from the soundtrack? Christine sounds okay, not great, but okay, everyone else is fine, I've heard Minnie Driver is fantastic, but Butler just can't sing, and that totally defeats the whole premise of the story.

[girlalmighty]

I am so with you on that. His voice! GACK! Oh, the way he plays it works pretty well, I'll give him that, but he can't sing! Minnie Driver doesn't sing her part; they got her a voice actress. Couldn't they have done that for Butler, too?

It really does defeat the purpose. I mean, if I were Christine, I'd have to be like "Um, thanks but no thanks. I mean, you can't even sing yourself, how are you going to make me sound good?" Of course, she already sounds better than him, but, y'know. (Emmy Rossum does a decent job, I think. In "Think of Me," she's kind of weak, but it works for the story.)

[alpheratz.livejournal.com]

the book Phantom has fuck-all to do with the show Phantom

Yeah, pretty much.

because millions of fans wouldn't be in love with him if he were all, you know, necrotic and stuff

I actually read the book before I watched the show, or even listened to the music, and still went through a brief phase of Erik-crushing. I was crushing on Raoul at the same time, though.

It's the Christine worshipping, and the gorgeous voice - you just forget he's horrid. I don't know about other girls, but in literature (not IRL, god forbid) there are few things more exciting to me than a guy who's totally smitten. I'm reading Post Captain right now, which I don't know if you've read, and Stephen Maturin is completely head over heels in love with this girl, and it's really touching.

So it might be that, I don't know.

The Phantom fangirls whoo bash Christine for choosing Raoul totally baffle me, however, for the simple reason that Erik is so, so crazy.

And for once, I have an appropriate icon. Heh.

[cleolinda.livejournal.com]

Okay, I have to admit, there were several parts in the book where I could totally feel the Phantom. I think it was mostly when Christine was telling the story of what it was like down there--he carried her down there and then knelt at her feet? And then at the end he's all like, "I was just a dog willing to die for her"? Oh yeah. But it's easier to crush on that when you're reading the book because it's possible to push the nasty parts to the back of your mind. I don't know how I'd feel if I were constantly, visually confronted with what he really looked like. The guy reeked of the tomb and he had no nose, man.

[chowburger.livejournal.com]

There's one problem I can spot offhand, however, and that is letting a hot guy play the Phantom.

Well otherwise we're left with Raoul, who - in the book anyway - is a big girly man and cries every second page. I've gotta say that I was rooting for the Phantom the whole time, despite his... err... slight disfigurement. I'm all for angsty heroes, but Raoul... Let's just say I was strongly reminded of him when reading the chapters of Harry Potter 5 that involved a certain Cho Chang *cringe*

[cleolinda.livejournal.com]

Oh, I turned on Raoul the moment he said "And here I was going to give my name to an opera wench!" TO HER FACE, but then the Phantom gets a little childish and demanding himself, and... that's one of the things I really liked about the book, that it wasn't so much about Sparkly Hero and Brooding Antihero archetypes as it was about flawed, nuanced individuals.

[starr234.livejournal.com]

I tried to somehow deal with how hot movie Phantom is. I tried to convince myself that maybe they still had the gaping maw of oozing gross, they were just hiding it under his mask. Then I looked at the pictures and realized that the mask is TINY! Seriously, I think it might be smaller than the one in the stage production. There's no way to hide anything bigger than a spider bite under there. If he takes the mask off, all Christine has to do is, like, hold a hand up and squint a little to mess with her depth perception!

Admittedly, I haven't read the original version of the book since I was much too young to be reading it, and I went through a phase where I was enthralled by the romanticized melodramatic sap of Susan Kay's Phantom (and I'm certainly not saying "romanticized melodramatic sap" like it's a bad thing; I still love that book), but my biggest problem with the stage production has always been that the story became more about Christine. I always viewed the story in any form as a tragic love story about a man who was too disfigured both inside and out for anyone to really love him. The musical always struck me as being about a girl who can sing real high and omg scary masked man! I didn't feel like any of the characters had enough dimension to them. But maybe that's just me.

[girlalmighty]

The musical always struck me as being about a girl who can sing real high and omg scary masked man! I didn't feel like any of the characters had enough dimension to them.

I got a chance to see it for the first time a few months ago, and I loved the scenery, the music, the costuming. But I didn't care about the characters at all. I thought it was only a bad cast! Oh noez! But maybe that's just how it always is? Eep. There I go romanticizing things again. :p I think I like PotO for what it could be and isn't.

[dreagonfli.livejournal.com]

Another problem I have with them casting Gerard Butler is that he is so happy-go-lucky IRL. He's like, the nicest guy imaginable, and so jovial it's almost comic. It's nearly impossible for me to imagine him being this poor, dark, wretched creature.

I don't know. I have my doubts, but I still hope it will be fun.

Have you seen the guy playing Raoul? He was lovely in Angels in America, but he looks like a complete ponce the way they have him done up. I'm sorry, but there's no way I'm going to believe she wants Raoul over Gerard Butler. LOL

[cleolinda.livejournal.com]

Heh. We discussed that on the previous entry ("Joe! It's Joe!"). I love Patrick Wilson, and if he were in Joe Mode, he'd be perfect, but he just looks kind of pinchy and... well, poncy. Also, I can't figure out why he's wearing an open shirt in the snow.

[lilerthkwake.livejournal.com]

Glad you're feeling better.

And yes, hot Phantom not so scary. Though I LOOOOOVED the musical when I saw it--due to gorgeous sets, costumes, music, etc.--I just could not get over simpering sissy Christine. I wanted to shake her til her perfectly straight, white teeth tumbled out her mouth, all the while screaming at her: "So he lives underground and is kinda obsessive! You can work on that! Leave wimpo Raoul behind. Phantom is so way hotter AND sings better. Just tell him to leave the mask on while you're smooching."

[yarha.livejournal.com]

Good point about the attractive phantom guy. Is this because we've grown so accustomed to beauty even our villains must be good looking? Or is it because we can't imagine a total horror being even darkly attractive? I bet it's so he makes a good action figure. :p

Spidey sense tingling...I detect...teenage...girl..movie!

As for Project Gutenberg, it's one of the best things on the planet. Downloaded Dumas 'The Black Tulip'. Yay! Spifferino!

Yarha, Gutenberg In, Movies Out

PS: I go forth to view Alexander. If I post no more, it's 'cause I've slit my throat with a popcorn box because it was so bad. *Ties white scarf around neck, flips it over shoulder and puts on leather helmet, going forth ala WWI flying ace* "Tell mother I died game!"

[cyranocyrano.livejournal.com]

I'm glad I wasn't the only one who had this thought (hottie phantom). I'm not entranced by the show, but I really loved the book (I built a MUD-based quest game after reading it.) and so maybe there's a certain "I love it so it's okay if the phantom is lick-a-licious" thing going on. And I am dead curious to find out what Baz Luhrman's style is going to be outside the 'Red Curtain' stuff and so I kick the entire 'Alexander' project for being so not-released.

[strider1807.livejournal.com]

Hey Cleo.

I just recently friended this journal (but I've had m15m friended for a while now, I LOVE IT) and I didn't know where I should post this. I assume you've seen the Harry Potter "Potter Puppet Pals" at www.potterpuppetpals.com, and if you haven't, you should go watch their vids. Amazing, I'm telling you. But here's a little icon I made from watching that:



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v40/xXvulcan/heroineaddictpppherm.jpg

Enjoy!

Miles

[pygmymetal.livejournal.com]

Having seen 'Phantom' on stage twice, I can say it does rock - lots and LOTS of singing tho, it's not really a musical like Moulin Rouge. It's mostly singing.

And the music. Sweeping, romantic, ALW at his peak. And romantic. And yes, ALW's phantom is and always has been hawt. :p Christine was originally played by ALW's wifey Sarah Brightman. Then they divorced. Don't know if there is a parallel or not. :p

I'm looking forward to it. Evita was pretty good on screen as well. Superstar was not. :p

[likescarecrows.livejournal.com]

Too true. Personally I am not finding the Phantom attractive at all. When I saw it on Broadway (...well, Toronto actually) I thought the Phantom there was hot, but I always have a thing for darkevilguyswithissues.
I have a condensed version on book, and I cannot stand to look at the cover, it's illustrated the way the Phantom was always described.
Yea...what's up with that?

now I have an itching to listen to the soundtrack.

[holy-whatever.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I see the issue with Sexy!Phantom, but the thing is, even if we're basing this off the musical rather than the book (which I haven't read), the man is batshit insane.

THINK about it. Not only is he going to keep her down there, but he's got all those violent tendencies, etc. etc. Honestly, as much as I love Erik/Phantom, and I cry every time I see the last scene where he lets her go, I can't fault her for picking Raoul. Hey, he might be a pansy who dresses funny, but at least he loves her and he's got money and he's not killing people.

And the thing about Erik/Phantom is that, at least in the musical, it's not that he's in love with Christine - he's in love with her voice and what he could do with it (sounds dirty out of context, heehee). So I have the issues with the Hot Phantom, but it's still believabe she'd choose the one who's still sane.

At least to me.

(And I still don't know why they picked a Scottish actor who can't sing and who's almost panifully hot and adorably cheerful IRL to play the twisted, tortured anti-hero. Go figure.)

[dreamingenigma.livejournal.com]

I feel so out of the loop with Phantom of the Opera... I barely know anything about it :| I haven't read the book and I don't know the musical so I'm all "lala..." I need to be informed :|

[dolfairy173.livejournal.com]

out of curiousity... is your icon a reference to the book Night?

if not... what is it from?

[(Anonymous)]

Sorry Off topic :
Shawn Ashmore is in Legend of Earthsea (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0407384)

[perardua.livejournal.com]

Psst - Musical!Phantom looks like this under his cute little half-mask:



Just in case you were wondering!

[cleolinda.livejournal.com]

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.

[theatre-angel.livejournal.com]

Aww, I liked the torture chamber! *sniffles*

Baz Luhrmann directing the Phantom film? That would be orgasmic.

[the-wanlorn.livejournal.com]

I avoided all picture spoilers for the movie-musical because I didn't wasnt to see how they screwed everything up (since I'm a book-fan and a Lon-Chaney-movie-version-fan and a music-of-the-Lloyd-Webber-thing-fan).

But I broke down and clicked on your link.

And no. Just... no. In fact, FUCK no. They can't- He isn't- Just no.

[slammerkinbabe.livejournal.com]

Wow, I really need to reread the Leroux now... haven't read it in years. Thanks for reminding me.

[cleolinda.livejournal.com]

There's a great copy of the Leroux at Amazon for about $10, annotated by Leonard Wolf, that I am definitely buying myself. I'd really like to get an unabridged copy in French, though--read it side by side with the English version, since I was a French minor and I need to brush up. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to find a good copy anywhere...

[ter369.livejournal.com]

... a Phantom of the Opera movie (from the book, not the musical) with nothing but '80s music.

That's already been done, sorta. 1974, by Brian de Palma: Phantom of the Paradise, score by Paul Williams. I'm old enough to have seen it in first release. Check it out, for it sucks not.