(no subject)
Jun. 21st, 2004 04:42 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
cleolindaI hate to go on and on about this, but let's face it, I'm extremely new to the World of People Actually Reading My Stuff. I know several of you run websites, have very popular journals, or write widely-read fanfiction, so I'm wondering if anyone would like to share stories of the flames or negative feedback they've gotten--and I mean pointlessly, trollishly negative, like my cheerful "you should be put down" flame, or even this newest one: "your a loser for doing all that.. honestly how long did it take like 3 hours... fag." Because I totally don't mind the "hey, not my thing, meh" comments, and some of them have actually been helpful for future pieces.
Here's why: Not only do I apparently have tons of new readers streaming in from Mugglenet, I got an invite last week to post "Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban" on Fiction Alley, I'm getting ready to write the next "Fifteen Minutes," and there's something else in the works that's going to open the series up to a wider audience. I'm feeling a big ol' badly-spelled wave of "You're not as good as So-and-So" and "Who the hell do you think you are?" in my future, quite honestly, and since I'm still working on my skin-thickening, I'd like to know what's in store for me--what those of you with large readerships have already experienced. I mean, I've run SAST for more than a year and the Digest for nearly three, and I've never gotten anything like this before. Anyone want to share?
ETA: WINNAH!
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2004-06-21 02:48 pm (UTC)I received responses from journalists/Springsteen fans around the country, outright Springsteen fans--more or less challenging my stance, intelligent, penis size, you name it. It was interesting, and fortunately for me I had the entire week after publishing the piece off. I responded to each one, sometimes with the same level of tact (or lack there of) to what I was shown.
Paul Tartaras (sp) from cnn.com -- he used to reivew film there sent me a pretty intelligent response and then someone from the International Desk at Reuters, I forgot the name also sent a well-thought out critique of the piece. Most people didn't really get the authorial intent, but I did get plenty of the "You are teh_suck! I h8 U" emailz.
Ego was rattled a bit, but you publish a piece like that expecting to hear some negatives.
btw--I started reading at the Troy in 15 minutes, and loved it like a milkshake.
no subject
Date: 2004-06-21 02:53 pm (UTC)Yeah, I can imagine how defensive people can get about things like that--a negative review does *not* mean that the subject under review automatically gets taken to the back alley and shot, you know, but some people don't seem to grasp this.
And here's something else that isn't even directed at me: there are tons of "CHOKE AND DIE, ALFONSO CUARON!!!" comments in the comment thread of my Harry Potter review. Really, it's the irrational vehemence that I just don't understand.
(no subject)
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Date: 2004-06-21 02:54 pm (UTC)Dunno if that helps, but there you go.
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Date: 2004-06-21 03:01 pm (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 2004-06-21 02:57 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-06-21 07:51 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-06-21 03:00 pm (UTC)1. Print off offending comments
2. Carry to well-ventilated area
3. Douse paper in lighter fluid
4. Light
5. Make s'mores
And I love your 15 minute movies! :D I fell out of my chair laughing after reading your Troy rendition.
And to be really cheesy: like one writer said, writing a story is like sending out a signal into outer space--you never know who'll "get" it, or how the person will understand it.
Good luck.
Lis
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Date: 2004-06-21 03:02 pm (UTC)(no subject)
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From:*is horrified*
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Date: 2004-06-21 03:08 pm (UTC)The key is (I've been told) is to just ignore those types and in fact not comment about them at all.
no subject
Date: 2004-06-21 03:15 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-06-21 03:09 pm (UTC)I know, easier said than done, but essentially there are three kinds of criticisms on the internet:
-Thoughtfully worded, thought-out disagreements based on difference of opinion of whatever you're writing about and not you as a person. These are generally not a problem, and can even lead to some interesting discussions.
-Hysterical, ugly, grammatically-poor rants about what a psycho-bitch you are. Take comfort in the fact that the people writing these are barely literate jerks who can't form an intelligent argument, and thus resort to the third-grade playbook. You don't want to go to their birthday party, anyway, so don't let it get to you.
-Snotty, pedantic whiners who say things like "next time you post, why don't you try checking your facts first?", and who are experts in everything, ever. These are the toughest to deal with, cause they're kind of a mix of the first two. I'm not sure you'll run into many of them, since you write hilarious reviews of movies, not essays about the chemical properties of food additives.
I know criticism from strangers can be tough, but you can't please everyone, and if someone's going to be that hateful and vitriolic about something that's supposed to be light-hearted, you're better off not being their BFF anyway.
no subject
Date: 2004-06-21 07:55 pm (UTC)Criticism
Date: 2004-06-21 03:13 pm (UTC)The only thing I can say is that the more criticism you receive, the luckier you should feel. With writing, criticism just means that people took the time to read your work and just lack the intellect to tell you that it doesn't strike their fancy in a constructive way. The more you receive, the more you know that people have read your stuff.
Also, less people write comments to work they like.
So, my point, don't feel bad or discouraged. I for one quite enjoyed your work. Enough that I added you to my friends list. Hope you don't mind.
Take care of yourself and keep writing! I'll read it when I get back. :)
StriderA
Re: Criticism
Date: 2004-06-21 03:23 pm (UTC)Many people feel the need to tell me that what I'm doing is wrong, and how I'm just a part of the cause of the eventual destruction of the world and man kind and *insert horrifying comment here*.
Yeah, whatever--and I say this as a moderate liberal. Write a letter to your congressman if you feel so strongly about it, Sport.
(no subject)
From: (Anonymous) - Date: 2004-06-21 05:07 pm (UTC) - Expand(no subject)
From:hell. yes.
Date: 2004-06-21 03:14 pm (UTC)came for harry potter. stayed for jem and the holograms. some might suggest therapy. -- in short, i applaud your fine taste in movies and 80s cartoons.
Re: hell. yes.
Date: 2004-06-21 07:56 pm (UTC)eep...reposted and now spell checked reply o_0
Date: 2004-06-21 03:22 pm (UTC)I used to do a quite a bit of writing a couple years ago and even tried my hand at parodys [not as good as your though]...and like most I had the good feed back... the bad ones too.
I was a little hurt at the beginning because I couldnt understand they didnt realise that it was all in harmless fun...but then I thought...if they were stupid enough to flame me, I had everyright mock them shamelessly.
which is what i did.
posted all the flames and mocked them openly.
...in return i got nothing but support from the fans of my work...and more idiotic flames [which i posted too]
soo if i was you I wouldnt worry...save them, post them and let us mock them with you!
-mimi.
ps: i love the harry potter and troy parody....i was laughing so hard that tears were forming in my eyes..thank you!
p.p.s: i hope you dont mind but i pimped your lj community out to all my friends. ^__^
(Reply to this)
Re: eep...reposted and now spell checked reply o_0
Date: 2004-06-21 07:58 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-06-21 03:22 pm (UTC)Consider: what's the response of an intelligent, mature, reasonably well-balanced person when she's read something she doesn't like? Usually, to shrug and click out, right? because life is short, the Net is big, and there are so many better ways to spend one's time than reading or complaining about trash. Sometimes one might present an argument against a particularly obnoxious statement, but if so, it would be against the substance of the statement, not against the person making it.
Ad-hominem attacks automatically discredit the person who makes them. Anyone who calls you a name or makes negative personal remarks of any sort may therefore be lawfully considered a troll.
The thing to do with trolls is: DON'T FEED THEM. You'll save yourself no end of trouble if you make it a practice to click the handy delete button as soon as you see any sort of insult. Don't waste your time reading that crap, must less replying to it; just toss it right out and forget about it.
You don't OWE anybody a response, and even if you permanently chained yourself to your computer-desk, typing at warp-speed, you couldn't respond to everybody. So, only respond to people you find interesting and likeable.
*grins* This will free up lots more of your time for watching movies and writing hilarious parody-synopses of them. I'm hoping you do The Chrinicles of Riddick when you get a minute - sheesh, all that money they blew on SFX, and they couldn't hire a decent scriptwriter? The thing cries out to be parodied, and you are definitely the lady to do it.
Love your stuff, hon, and anybody who doesn't is TEH SUXXOR. Have a great day!
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Date: 2004-06-21 08:00 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-06-21 03:27 pm (UTC)I have yet to get a flame, but wank has toughened my skin ;)
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Date: 2004-06-21 08:02 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-06-21 03:30 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-06-21 07:39 pm (UTC)I think a lot of people who get into this aspect of the hobby (any hobby, including politics) are looking for a Tribal Enemy to yell and taunt and wave their private parts at, so they can feel more of a bond with the community they do identify with.
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Date: 2004-06-21 03:34 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-06-21 08:06 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-06-21 03:38 pm (UTC)Just wanted to say I know how hard criticism can be, especially when it is unfounded, purile and completely lacking in intelligence! It does take time to work on creating a thick skin.
Anyway, just wanted to tell you that I for one really enjoy your work. Very few people can make me laugh out loud with their writing, but you manage it every time. Just started reading The Black Ribbon, totally loving it - really enjoyable and, not just using this word to be pretentious, beguiling.
Big positive vibes of looooove ;-)
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Date: 2004-06-21 08:09 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-06-21 03:44 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-06-21 08:12 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-06-21 03:45 pm (UTC)But then if they start liking you a little too much, then it gets creepy.
And possessive.
And stalkerly, and then...harassedly....and...>_>
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Date: 2004-06-21 08:19 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-06-21 03:46 pm (UTC)I'm not cool enough for it not to bother me at all, though.
p.s. I think your prose is great and have recommended it to a bunch of friends. I should have said that sooner.
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Date: 2004-06-21 08:21 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-06-21 03:50 pm (UTC)My basic technique for dealing with flames and /or harsh criticism, whether it's in relation to fan fiction or things I post, is to ask whether or not the negative remarks have, in fact, anything to do with me. By that, I mean that I look at what's said, and consider whether or not what the person has written actually changes my mind about anything I've written/posted/said. If not, then I conclude that their problem is no longer my problem, and move on.
Now, obviously, this works best if one only has a relatively low volume to deal with. But when you do get even an obvious flame that tells you you're wasting your time, it's hard not to take it personally, because it's directed *to* you personally. And that's when, if it was me, I'd be asking myself "Okay, do I feel I'm wasting my time?" and more than likely answering, "Hell, no." Their problem, not mine, next, please. Anyway, it helps me separate the stuff that I can change, and that is my responsibility, from the complaints about things I can't change, and am not responsible for, if that makes any sense.
In closing, I'd like to share my most treasured flame with you, which I received as the admin of a Law & Order slash site.
right i phoning the police on you
because you keep telling lies and harassing Lennie Briscoe so you either take the lies off your website or Iâll ring the police I have got the phone next to me and I not afraid to phone them you have got today only to get the parts which say Lennie Briscoe is gay when heâs not or I will phone the police and I will tell him and he will sue you and the people who you need to take their stories off are Ruth Sadelle Anderson and Becky and Anne Higgins and remember you have only until tomorrow to get them off if you donât I will phone the police then tell Jerry Orbach who plays the part of Lennie Briscoe what you are saying about and he will sue the count down starts when you receive this e-mail
From Angie Harmon
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Date: 2004-06-21 08:26 pm (UTC)And yeah, I've gotten some "I didn't so much dig this" comments that were simple statements of... well, not liking. And that's fine. And a friend of mine didn't like the HP one, and told me why, and it was actually pretty constructive. It's the "loser" and "fag" and "die" comments that are clearly wastes of my time, and yet... it just makes you go, "Wow, what'd I ever to do you?"
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From:That girl...
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Date: 2004-06-21 03:54 pm (UTC)thanks so much and BTW...funny funny stuff! quite gifted!
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Date: 2004-06-21 08:33 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-06-21 04:02 pm (UTC)- a guy excoriating me for my less-than-glowing review of 'candyman,' and pointing me to his website to see how 'candyman' *should* be reviewed;
- a guy asking me what the title of 'silence of the lambs' meant (watch the movie, dumbass);
- a few kids asking for my help doing research papers;
- a few people asking where they can get certain movies. one guy asked where he could get a certain porno.
but i also get good stuff, like the thoughtful guy who fell over himself in gratitude that someone else loved 'fear and loathing in las vegas' (this was when it first came out, before it got the criterion DVD treatment and the typical four-years-late critical response of 'y'know, the film is actually an overlooked gem').
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Date: 2004-06-21 08:53 pm (UTC)I also had a girl asking me for help in getting her the Violet role in the Lemony Snicket movie. I had to break it to her that 1) I was only running a glorified Geocities site for movie news and 2) the role had already been cast.
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Date: 2004-06-21 04:14 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-06-21 09:03 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-06-21 04:21 pm (UTC)The funny thing is, you'll find as your level of ability goes up and you become more recogniseable and well-known to people online, you'll recieve more flames than ever. People see a tall poppy and they want to cut it down. Half of them are motivated by envy. It's really, really hard to ignore, I know... but ignoring it is the best way to deal with it. In the end, you'll come off looking like the mature, reasonable, intelligent human being; and the asshole flaming you will come off looking like the jealous prick they are. ;P
LOVE your M15Ms. I started reading at Van Helsing and have been addicted ever since. I'm Australian, so the movies out here come out a bit later - often I find myself in the position of having read your M15M review BEFORE I see the movie itself. My boyfriend wondered why I was sniggering all through "Troy". I blame you. ;)
no subject
Date: 2004-06-21 09:10 pm (UTC)I was accused of plagiarism on a poetry community myself--I saw a book called Written on the Body, and since you can't copyright titles, apparently, I wrote a poem using that as a jumping-off point, but I never actually read the book. Someone noticed the connection and accused me of somehow plagiarizing the book for my poem, until finally the mod herself had to step in and say, "Look, I've READ that book, it's nothing like the poem, chill the hell out."
Sacred Cows and how we cook them :)
Date: 2004-06-21 04:32 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-06-21 04:33 pm (UTC)But as to flames, the psychology at work, imo, is that because you're such a screamingly funny writer and so well-loved that they want to try and knock you down a peg to make themselves feel better - you know, losers with no friends. har. ^_^
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Date: 2004-06-21 09:12 pm (UTC)And thanks. :)
You're famous!
Date: 2004-06-21 04:38 pm (UTC)Personally I think you have the "gift of comedy", and will be spying on you from now on :)
Re: You're famous!
Date: 2004-06-21 09:16 pm (UTC)Re: You're famous!
From: