Parenthetical Holmesian miscellany
Jan. 3rd, 2010 12:26 pmAs a follow-up to the Sherlock Holmes movie discussion entry, I feel like I should clarify that I don't actually think Holmes and Watson were doing it although I can absolutely see why you might. (And the movie might agree with you. Commenters pointed out that there were lines from Irene in the trailer ("They've been flirting for hours" and "Will you two just kiss and make up?") that got cut from the movie, as well as a line in the original script where Mary tells Holmes that Watson's "heart is generous. He has room for both of us." Also, Robert Downey Jr. apparently pissed off Doyle's estate by suggesting that Holmes might be "a very butch homosexual.") I am simply saying that they are in love, love, looooooove. It is not for me to specify the nature of that love; I can only point to the GIGANTIC BLATANT IMMENSITY of it.
(I should also note that the words "Satan," "Satanic," and "devil" are never mentioned in the movie, as far as I remember. [Spoilers?] The secret society in the movie seems to resemble the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn a lot, and there's some arcane (and historically inspired) ooga-booga to it, but the implication is that it's not evil per se; it's Lord Blackwood who wants to pervert its purpose. I wasn't terribly clear about that, and after I thought about it, I realized that I might not have even described Blackwood's activities accurately, either--but the movie opening with an attempted human sacrifice made me go, "Oh, Hollywood Satanism, sure." So that's where that came from.)
I also spent a good bit of yesterday afternoon rereading the first two Holmes novels, A Study in Scarlet and The Sign of the Four. The former is interesting because it shows you how Holmes and Watson meet, but while the character of Sherlock Holmes is pretty fully realized from the first page, he's initially written as being a bit naive about anything not helpful to detecting, such as, you know, the fact that the sun is the center of the solar system (I am not making this up). I think Doyle eventually realized that this didn't make sense, because everything is potentially helpful to detecting, and so by the second novel (the stories didn't appear until afterward), Holmes is far better read and knowledgeable about life in general. If you really want a classic, full-blown Holmes adventure, I would recommend that second novel. It doesn't stop dead in the middle for a huge third-person account of someone else's lovelorn Mormon revenge drama, of all things (special guest appearance by Evil Brigham Young!); you see a lot of classic Holmesian elements (the disguise, the hapless police inspectors, the Baker Street Irregulars, the cocaine); and it shows you how Watson actually met Mary Morstan. There are, however... well, there are some facepalm-inducing racial issues with one of the villains (and that's not even getting into the treatment of the aforementioned Mormons), which is why I suggest reading an annotated version (I have the Klinger, haven't read the Baring-Gould) to offset the Wow, Victorians Were Offensive! And How! aspect of it.
Of course, The Hound of the Baskervilles is also a classic, but Holmes is offscreen (offpage?) for a bit of it. The Sign of the Four is more of an adventure (also, the movie seems to have borrowed a number of little things from this one), whereas The Hound is more of a slow-burning atmospheric suspense kind of thing. Also: less racist. Yay!
I feel the question coming on, so: if you just want some short stories to read, I would definitely recommend "A Scandal in Bohemia" (the Irene Adler story), "The Adventure of the Speckled Band" ("Terror! SHEER TERROR!"), "The Adventure of the Copper Beeches" (the Granada episode starred a young Natasha Richardson, IIRC), "The Naval Treaty," and "The Adventure of the Second Stain," although the more I look through the list of stories, the more I want to recommend, so I'll stop there. (Really, pretty much anything in that first collection is good.) I would highly avoid the last collection of stories, for reasons explained here ("JELLYFISH!!!"). Although, that is the entry I pulled the Epic Love excerpt from, so maybe you will want to read "The Three Garridebs," I don't know.
Back to the movie, I think I have figured out what the Significant Crow was about. See, that was the part that upset me, because the Significant Crow that followed Blackwood and his misdeeds around seemed to indicate that all the supernatural stuff was for real; that's why I was all like NOOOOOO THIS IS NOT HOW YOU DO IT WHYYYYYYY. But then, at the end [MASSIVE SPOILER], Blackwood gets ironically, "accidentally" hanged, Significant Crow is significant, etc. So what I think was actually going on was that Blackwood really was messing with things he either didn't understand or couldn't handle--if only by taking them in vain, as it were, and pretending to use them; maybe it was related to the "actual" secret society and its arcane powers--and the Significant Crow was following him around observing all this, as an emissary of Things He Should Not Have Messed With, and thus, at the end, was present for his judgment, and might have actually caused it. I mean, not that the crow literally messed with bridgey-whatever stuff, but that it was the embodiment of the powers that had been biding their time and were finally like, "Yeah, you're done now."
particle_person:
THE CROW KNOWS THAT, OKAY? THE CROW KNOWS.

(I should also note that the words "Satan," "Satanic," and "devil" are never mentioned in the movie, as far as I remember. [Spoilers?] The secret society in the movie seems to resemble the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn a lot, and there's some arcane (and historically inspired) ooga-booga to it, but the implication is that it's not evil per se; it's Lord Blackwood who wants to pervert its purpose. I wasn't terribly clear about that, and after I thought about it, I realized that I might not have even described Blackwood's activities accurately, either--but the movie opening with an attempted human sacrifice made me go, "Oh, Hollywood Satanism, sure." So that's where that came from.)
I also spent a good bit of yesterday afternoon rereading the first two Holmes novels, A Study in Scarlet and The Sign of the Four. The former is interesting because it shows you how Holmes and Watson meet, but while the character of Sherlock Holmes is pretty fully realized from the first page, he's initially written as being a bit naive about anything not helpful to detecting, such as, you know, the fact that the sun is the center of the solar system (I am not making this up). I think Doyle eventually realized that this didn't make sense, because everything is potentially helpful to detecting, and so by the second novel (the stories didn't appear until afterward), Holmes is far better read and knowledgeable about life in general. If you really want a classic, full-blown Holmes adventure, I would recommend that second novel. It doesn't stop dead in the middle for a huge third-person account of someone else's lovelorn Mormon revenge drama, of all things (special guest appearance by Evil Brigham Young!); you see a lot of classic Holmesian elements (the disguise, the hapless police inspectors, the Baker Street Irregulars, the cocaine); and it shows you how Watson actually met Mary Morstan. There are, however... well, there are some facepalm-inducing racial issues with one of the villains (and that's not even getting into the treatment of the aforementioned Mormons), which is why I suggest reading an annotated version (I have the Klinger, haven't read the Baring-Gould) to offset the Wow, Victorians Were Offensive! And How! aspect of it.
Of course, The Hound of the Baskervilles is also a classic, but Holmes is offscreen (offpage?) for a bit of it. The Sign of the Four is more of an adventure (also, the movie seems to have borrowed a number of little things from this one), whereas The Hound is more of a slow-burning atmospheric suspense kind of thing. Also: less racist. Yay!
I feel the question coming on, so: if you just want some short stories to read, I would definitely recommend "A Scandal in Bohemia" (the Irene Adler story), "The Adventure of the Speckled Band" ("Terror! SHEER TERROR!"), "The Adventure of the Copper Beeches" (the Granada episode starred a young Natasha Richardson, IIRC), "The Naval Treaty," and "The Adventure of the Second Stain," although the more I look through the list of stories, the more I want to recommend, so I'll stop there. (Really, pretty much anything in that first collection is good.) I would highly avoid the last collection of stories, for reasons explained here ("JELLYFISH!!!"). Although, that is the entry I pulled the Epic Love excerpt from, so maybe you will want to read "The Three Garridebs," I don't know.
Back to the movie, I think I have figured out what the Significant Crow was about. See, that was the part that upset me, because the Significant Crow that followed Blackwood and his misdeeds around seemed to indicate that all the supernatural stuff was for real; that's why I was all like NOOOOOO THIS IS NOT HOW YOU DO IT WHYYYYYYY. But then, at the end [MASSIVE SPOILER], Blackwood gets ironically, "accidentally" hanged, Significant Crow is significant, etc. So what I think was actually going on was that Blackwood really was messing with things he either didn't understand or couldn't handle--if only by taking them in vain, as it were, and pretending to use them; maybe it was related to the "actual" secret society and its arcane powers--and the Significant Crow was following him around observing all this, as an emissary of Things He Should Not Have Messed With, and thus, at the end, was present for his judgment, and might have actually caused it. I mean, not that the crow literally messed with bridgey-whatever stuff, but that it was the embodiment of the powers that had been biding their time and were finally like, "Yeah, you're done now."
Heh, true, there was a bit of an implication there. By the way, I think the bird was a raven (which are close relatives of crows), because it was Tower Bridge, which is famous for its ravens.
The earliest known reference to a tower raven is a picture in the newspaper The Pictorial World in 1885. This and scattered subsequent references to the tower ravens, both literary and visual, which appear in the late nineteenth to early twentieth century place them near the monument commemorating those beheaded at the tower, popularly known as the “scaffold.” This strongly suggests that the ravens, which are notorious for gathering at gallows, were originally used to dramatize tales of imprisonment and execution at the tower told by the Yeomen Warders to tourists.
Yeah.
THE CROW KNOWS THAT, OKAY? THE CROW KNOWS.
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Date: 2010-01-03 06:29 pm (UTC)I am simply saying that they are in love, love, looooooove. It is not for me to specify the nature of that love; I can only point to the GIGANTIC BLATANT ENORMITY of it.
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Date: 2010-01-03 11:18 pm (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 2010-01-03 06:34 pm (UTC)The ravens there are probably some of the best kept and spoiled birds in the world. And rather cocky about it too ;) Which is why the raven appearing to me probably just went 'ha! tower bridge ravens legend!' vs 'ooh satanic evil crow'. Hadn't even thought about that.
I also am having to reread my giant compendium of Holmes stories. Which really, I think, shows how good the movie is - good enough that it drives me to reading. Not that much is needed to drive me to reading :)
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Date: 2010-01-03 06:37 pm (UTC)In regard to the Holmes novels, iirc, those first 2 novels were when Watson's wound migrated!
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Date: 2010-01-03 06:38 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-01-03 06:43 pm (UTC)I've never read Sherlock Holmes before (hangs head in shame) but after checking out the annotated versions you linked to, they have gone on my wish list.
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Date: 2010-01-04 06:10 pm (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 2010-01-03 06:47 pm (UTC)This is my very favorite Holmes quote. IIRC he says he deliberately forgets any info not of use to his purpose so as not to take up extra room in his brain. Watson makes it clear that he (and by extension all normal, rational scientific people) think this is just plain frelling bonkers. Holmes is a scientist, but a very crazy one; a monomaniac. Which is why he is so obsessed with Irene Adler and Moriarty--the only two people as smart as him (excepting the mysterious and even more insane Mycroft).
Holmes's monomania is both what makes him able to solve the crimes and completely incapable of carrying out a successful emotional relationship: He doesn't have room for one in his ... um, brain. However much he and Watson may feel for each other, it's a doomed, unbalanced friendship.
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Date: 2010-01-03 06:51 pm (UTC)http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0553328255/ref=ox_ya_oh_product
I thought it was brand spankin' new but the Amazon page says 1986 *shrug* But you can't beat $10 :) I can't wait til it comes in. I want to read it before I see the movie again.
I just don't get the article about the threat to the future of the sequel (please no! need MORE!). Like, I get it, I just don't get it. RDJ never comes out and says that Holmes and Watson are getting down...It was a joke and the estate chick needs to lighten up. Holmes and Watson are like JD and Turk...or House and Wilson (ha!).
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Date: 2010-01-03 06:53 pm (UTC)PS
Date: 2010-01-03 06:54 pm (UTC)I like your Crow retcon, but I think you're giving the movie more credit than it deserves. I think Ritchie just didn't care--the Crow was cool, and that's all there was to it. Unless, of course, it was an elaborate hommage to Jason Lee.
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Date: 2010-01-03 06:54 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-01-03 06:58 pm (UTC)I like this interpretation of the Significant Crow. I'll confess to not giving it much thought during the movie other than, "unh, Lord Blackwood approacheth?" and then tied it to how crows are meant to be couriers of the dead, and since Blackwood was meant to be dead, it'd make sense that a crow followed him around everywhere and was biding its time until he was dead (for reals) and it could finish its task.
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Date: 2010-01-03 07:20 pm (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 2010-01-03 07:08 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-01-04 05:02 am (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 2010-01-03 07:13 pm (UTC)This intrigues me, because just yesterday a friend told me she was reading Verne's Around the World in 80 Days and randomly in the middle of the book one of the characters listens to a spiel by a Mormon missionary and then gets up and walks out. Was there some Victorian meme about mocking Mormons that I'm not getting?
Hm, maybe the Significant Crow was just a bit of movie misdirection, to give the audience more reason to suspect supernatural doings, but in the end it's just a raven on a bridge?
This movie was pretty much my first exposure to Holmes (aside from Data in the holodeck from TNG) but I'm definitely going to read at least one story now, although I'll probably end up imagining RDJ as Holmes while I read... which... not a bad thing, I guess!
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Date: 2010-01-03 07:48 pm (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 2010-01-03 07:21 pm (UTC)That's a terrible paraphrase, I know. But what I'm driving at is the movie (and Holmes) are completely agnostic about ooga booga; but there's the sense that there may be something out there (crow! karma!) that Blackwood kens not the power of -- he's agnostic, too, remember. And the Raven of Ending is there to maybe hint that Blackwood courted his own death by employing those particular methods in his quest for world domination.
My take, fwiw.
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Date: 2010-01-03 07:22 pm (UTC)(ETA - having said that, the Brits really did freak out at the fact the US still had slavery for so long. Dickens was very "land of the free and the brave and the huh?")
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Date: 2010-01-03 07:30 pm (UTC)And it's not precisely fighting the Klan, it's more someone being murdered because he _hadn't_ been involved with the Klan, and therefore didn't know the significance.
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From:This isn't quite my period, so bear with me...
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Date: 2010-01-03 07:31 pm (UTC)/nerdery
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Date: 2010-01-03 07:51 pm (UTC)Significant Crow /is/ Significant! Hadn't thought of it that way, but I like your reasoning. And it probably was a raven; iirc, they used a raven in the movie The Crow because ravens, being more intelligent, can take direction.
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Date: 2010-01-03 10:32 pm (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 2010-01-03 07:52 pm (UTC)That said, the lady from Doyle's estate needs to lighten the heck up. It was a joke, people, live with it. I really wish she hadn't said anything because now if they do end up making a sequel they'll probably feel the need to specifically point out that Holmes and Watson are just friends, and both of them has a female love interest on the side and blah de blah de blah, in order to keep Doyle's estate happy. Let me have my subtext without interfering, confound you!
(Never read a Holmes book yet, but this movie - and your entries - really made me want to. I think a stop to the library is in order...)
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Date: 2010-01-03 07:55 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-01-03 08:00 pm (UTC)Similarly, if they had to give Holmes a love interest, I'm glad they picked the most canonically appropriate candidate, Irene Adler, and made her his foil -- she's the Catwoman to his Batman.
I really, really liked this version of Watson. Kudos to the writers and to Jude Law for making the good doctor a rounded, competent character whose devotion to Holmes is deep but not fawning.
I'm not sure how I feel about the decision to disregard The Sign of Four and make Mary Morstan a stranger to Holmes with living parents, rather than a former client (mother long dead) who had hired Holmes to investigate a mystery connected to her father's disappearance. I loved the dinner engagement -- particularly "Take Watson" "I intend to", and her response to Holmes's insinuations -- and the hospital scene, but it could have been interesting to see a more canonical version of the Holmes/Watson/Morstan triangle. Hell, in Sign Holmes tells Watson, “I think she is one of the most charming young ladies I ever met and might have been most useful in such work as we have been doing.” Ah well. Perhaps twenty years from now, when it's time for yet another reinterpretation.
Speaking of reinterpretions, I've been saying for years that I want a film or TV adaptation of A Study in Scarlet in which we get to see 30-ish actors portraying Holmes and Watson as new roommates, with all the attendant awkwardness. I think it could be hilarious: "Has the post come?" "Yes, it's on the mantelpiece." "...Why is there a knife through it?"
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Date: 2010-01-04 02:00 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-01-03 08:23 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-01-04 12:46 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-01-03 08:23 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-01-03 08:38 pm (UTC)The whole super sekrit order puzzled me because I kept thinking, "Did they just not want to seem like they were ripping off the latest Dan Brown by actually making them Masons or what?" But I guess Golden Dawn makes more sense.
And I don't know if the crow was just following Blackwood around because the man served a good crow buffet or if it was a Harbinger of Things Unseen, but it was atmospheric.
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Date: 2010-01-04 12:26 am (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 2010-01-03 09:12 pm (UTC)I really like this interpretation. It's like in [spoiler, I guess, for a 40-year-old novel?] The Last Battle (the last Narnia book), when Tash actually shows up and goes, "Hey, you summoned me, I'm here, WHAT" and the bad guy who's been taking Tash's name in vain the whole time just to intimidate everyone is like *meeble* and then Tash eats him. That was so awesome.
Ahem. Sorry. Big Narnia fan (preachiness and all...and actually, come to think of it, those books had their racist moments too).
My first reaction to the Doyle estate lady was, "Man, she needs to lighten up," but the truth is, I kind of understand where she's coming from. RDJ's comment wasn't about subtext or undertones. Making a movie where Holmes & Watson are actually gay- in a way, that's basically glorified fanfic, and I can see why that would be upsetting to the "owner" of the characters (granted, she didn't create them, so she doesn't really have the same emotional investment, but still, she's legally responsible for them. Also, she was probably just taking his joke too seriously, but that's a separate issue.)
(There's totally a Frodo-Sam joke in here and I can't find it...)
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Date: 2010-01-04 04:22 am (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 2010-01-03 10:06 pm (UTC)There really are ravens all over the damn place, so I just assumed significant!raven was there for local color. The supernatural element (red herring?) would have worked better if he had been more Malificent-y.
As for the movie, well. It was much more Holmesian (making up words right and left here) than I had expected from the previews. But I just never ended up liking it. I kept waiting for it to pull me in, and in the end it felt... dull. Which was so weird - I like Guy Ritchie, I like Robert Downey Jr., I like Rachel McAdams and I Love Mark Strong. I just felt that the plot never really kicked into high gear for me. Something off about the pacing of it. Oh, well. More excited for Iron Man 2 now...
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Date: 2010-01-03 11:02 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-01-04 12:55 am (UTC)(no subject)
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