How is it already 10:30?

[cleolinda]

So I've spent my evening screencapping Cloverfield commercials (icons, cough), how was yours?

(Question: When people do text-only icons, you know, and the quote or text or whatever takes up the entire space and is, I might add, completely legible, what fonts do they tend to use? Because I'd like to use something a little less pixelly than Silkscreen, and I don't really have time to wade through the 2500 fonts on my hard drive. "Hey! That one doesn't even have letters!")

P.S. Verdict on last night's discussion: 1) It's not unreasonable to feel that "This sucks!" is a teensy bit unhelpful; 2) that said, you can't really shut yourself off from negative criticism, even if it's unhelpful, because one day it might be helpful, so... it sucks to be you, and by you I mean me, if you haven't toughened up yet, basically.

Comments

[particle-person.livejournal.com]

Not sure if I agree with that verdict. I don't think "this sucks" (when intended as invective) is helpful at all. Toughing up is probably good, but may be impossible to achieve.

[cleolinda.livejournal.com]

Well, I guess what I'm saying is, if you go NO NEGATIVE CRITICISM EVER LA LA LA I SHALL JUST NOT READ IT (after you feel something is "done," which was the scenario I put forth), you're closing yourself off to criticism that might not be able to help you this time (because you're "done"), but could help you for the future. It's not that "You suck" is worth listening to; it's that you lose everything else if you shut it off completely.

[particle-person.livejournal.com]

If I'm understanding what you're saying right, the argument is really about signal to noise ratio -- if you want to get some signal, you have to accept background noise?

[cleolinda.livejournal.com]

Yeah, you could say that. Whereas my original question was, "Is it wrong to feel like you're just *done* with something, so you want to shut off all the noise, period?" Except that, as a couple of people pointed out, compliments are always welcome and will always be an exception, so you're basically saying, "Only good reviews plz!!1"

[foresthouse.livejournal.com]

Oh, you, with the math & scienc-y words. ;)

[theonlykow.livejournal.com]

In the past, I would have agreed with you.

The problem is, nowadays we're on the internet, and regardless of whether it's useful from a constructive point of view, it's going to happen, and if it helps toughen someone up... well... then it ended up being useful.

But then, I try to find the positive in everything, haha.

[eofs.livejournal.com]

I dunno. I think it's exactly as helpful as "this is awesome" in that it doesn't actually tell you at all why the product is bad/good, but it does give someone's emotional response. It's a bit like the difference between giving something a 5 (or 1) star rating or leaving a comment. The ratings give an overall impression of how it's been received, the comments give specifics.

And this is why I always try to qualify my opinion, whether positive or negative.

[particle-person.livejournal.com]

This assumes that the comment is really about the piece. "This sucks!" is as likely to reflect the person's feelings about Cleo or M15s in general as about whatever she's written. It could even be someone who is still upset about a previous parody, like the people who were outraged by Prisoner of Azkaban in 15M, or who loves Cloverfield so much that they can't take what they see as an attempt to bash it.

[solielle.livejournal.com]

About halfway down, this tutorial (http://community.livejournal.com/grrliz_icons/105074.html) lists some fonts the icon maker uses for text only icons. I tend to just use Arial Black, or whatever, but my text-only icons are...not good.

[cleolinda.livejournal.com]

Aww, I like the one you're using! (Thanks!)

[padawansguide.livejournal.com]

I feel your font pain. I have a ton - and not all of them even work. Some day when I'm bored, I'll have to go through them or something. Which means never, basically! :-) Send you an email about Sweeney Todd - plus I have a report on CG about which Sweeney costumes are on display at FIDM...

[cleolinda.livejournal.com]

Yay! I think I'm actually going to pack the icon-making up for the night because I've made all of one (1) icon, and I could be going through the Sweeney caps as a much more productive use of my time right now.

*points at icon*

[jettcat.livejournal.com]

Impact is LOLcat font of choice, but I like this
http://www.stclaire.com/safety_sign_builder/ssb-panel.php
Free to set up an account and let the fun begin!

[sapphires13.livejournal.com]

Pixelsix (http://www.dafont.com/pixelsix.font) is a really good tiny font that I use sometimes (that's a three font package, although it lacks question marks, so I usually just end up drawing them myself, or else borrowing from other pixel fonts)

Superkarcher (http://www.dafont.com/superkarcher.font) is another good, square-ish tiny font.

[thansunshine.livejournal.com]

I made chocolate chip cookie dough just to eat the dough.

[tabbyclaw.livejournal.com]

I made sugar cookie dough to make fishbiscuits on Thursday. I refuse to tell my mother (another Lostite) what they're going to be.

[cleolinda.livejournal.com]

Heeeeeee, fishbiscuits.

[amanuensis1.livejournal.com]

Is there another reason??

[lots42.livejournal.com]

Look for something called 'small font(s)'. It makes my icon-obsessed selfhappy.

[aircrash.livejournal.com]

i don't make many icons, but my favorite font in general is tahoma, and i think that might be good to use for icons. it's kinda like verdana, but slimmer.

[lyn-thorne.livejournal.com]

I second Tahoma. It's a great font for text on icons, I think.

(Looking forward to the Cloverfield icons!)

[plazmah.livejournal.com]

I also tend to use Arial Black for my text-only icons.

[edda.livejournal.com]

so... it sucks to be you, and by you I mean me, if you haven't toughened up yet, basically.

I'm pretty sure this is why a lot of writers drink. It sort of makes me wish I did.

[edda.livejournal.com]

Meaning I'm not all that tough where criticism is concerned, either.

[deepfishy.livejournal.com]

For a handwriting-esque font that's still readable when v. small, I tend to use either TrashHand (http://www.dafont.com/trash-hand.font) (a la my icon) or Kaela (http://www.dafont.com/kaela.font); for a more pleasing Impact-type font, Propaganda (http://www.dafont.com/propaganda.font) or Dirty Headline (http://www.dafont.com/dirty-headline.font); for a typewriter font, X-files (http://www.dafont.com/xfiles1.font) and Telegraphem (http://www.dafont.com/telegraphem.font) are good.

(dafont.com (http://www.dafont.com/) is like crack for icon-making)

fonts!

[notashamed.livejournal.com]

I agree to everything said here. I was going to mention pretty much all of these fonts! And Carnivalee Freakshow and Cooper Black, though they are sometimes over used. Or just keep it simple: Arial Black or Georgia can work just as well.

Did you see? XKCD responded to your pain

[7tree-hugger.livejournal.com]

Perhaps we can have nice things after all (http://xkcd.com/377/)

[hollywdliz.livejournal.com]

I meant to comment yesterday but, um, forgot. But here's my take on "That sucked!" comments: I think you have to take them if you also accept comments that simply state, "That kicked ass!" Neither is particularly constructive; one just happens to make you feel better than the other. I don't like "That sucked!" comments either, but they're sort of part of the deal when you allow readers to comment, period.

Direct and immediate interaction with readers can be a good thing, but I bet Charles Dickens never had to put up with that shit. I say we follow Alan Rickman's example and get drunk.

P.S. I did not see "Cloverfield" and have no interest in seeing "Cloverfield" but did enjoy your m15m treatment of it, probably a lot more than I would enjoy the movie. (I don't do monster movies. When I want to get scared half to death by horrifying things, I'll ride the bus at midnight, and seeing as how I do that several times a week already, I consider my quota amply met. But scary tempered by hilarious I can do, so thank you for that.)

[foresthouse.livejournal.com]

Don't forget: 3) Even if the criticism IS helpful, it's not unnatural to initially feel annoyed or hurt by it if it's phrased badly or hostilely, or, hey, even if it's not! After all, it's much easier to critique than to actually write something (for most people), and you, having just created something out of your own head, might be expected to be a bit affronted by people randomly saying, "I don't like X, why didn't you do Y?" after you've put a lot of thought into it. That's not to say you shouldn't listen to truly helpful things; just that it's normal that you'd feel hurt or angry sometimes.

Re: fonts
I use Arial/Arial Black/Arial Narrow a lot. Often with the stroke outline to make it stand out.
In this entry (http://community.livejournal.com/theiconolatrist/6130.html) I used Stereophonic (#3, 15, 26); Ogdred Weary (1, 7, 9, 15, etc.); Jane Austen (2, 10, etc.); Edward Gorey (12, 21, etc.); something I think called...Kabel (Oh, that's not right, I can't remember the name - but it's 3, 18, etc.); Comic Sans (5, 32); and Monotype Corsiva (33).
At least Gorey and Austen I got from Neil Gaiman links, not sure if some of the others were standard or not...

I used Courier or maybe Courier new here (http://community.livejournal.com/theiconolatrist/5267.html) - you can usually fit a lot on and it's still readable.

If I have any you want and you know how I'd share them with you, I'd be glad to. I think I have the installation files somewhere on my computer...?

[valancy-s.livejournal.com]

"This sucks" is not very helpful. But the one instance where I could see constructive criticism of a finished product being helpful is exactly in your situation - when the text is one of a series. If someone said "This M15M is not as funny as your previous M15Ms for X and Y specific reasons," that would make some sense since you plan to write more. Though solicited criticism is always easier to face than a total stranger's.

As for the hurt feelings, it might help to focus on that fact that you've got at least a 100-to-1 slavish-adoration-to-criticism ratio going on :)

[sturmclan.livejournal.com]

Y'know what? I disagree. "This sucks" is not criticism. It's complaining. Which, if you're on the internet (especially in the capacity that you are), you have to expect. But, that doesn't mean it's criticism - constructive or otherwise. It's simply whining & complaining. Much as "This is awesome!!!" is not really helpful, either. Glad you enjoyed it, but it doesn't help me improve.

Unfortunately, the internet being what it is, there are always people who will just have "comment Tourette's" and I choose to ignore those people completely - kind of like Olympic figure skating judging where the top and bottom scores are tossed and they look at the rest. I'm always annoyed at "that sux!!!" and "ur awesum!!!1!!11" comments, because if you're going to take the time to push that "comment" button, you should have the time to say something of worth.

Fonts? I always go to Helvetica, Arial, BookAntiqua & Garamond for this purpose. Boring? Yes. But utterly legible - even at small points.

[greyduck.livejournal.com]

Much as "This is awesome!!!" is not really helpful, either. Glad you enjoyed it, but it doesn't help me improve.

Granted, but sometimes a kudo is just that. Maybe I don't know enough about creating in the given medium to offer genuine constructive criticism. I still desire to show my support and enthusiasm, and if I don't know you personally (so I can't do so off-channel) then what else am I going to do? Mind you, I also try to make a point of noting certain highlights that particularly entertained me. Does that count?

I'm always annoyed at "that sux!!!" and "ur awesum!!!1!!11" comments...

That, I understand. "Lay off the 'bang' key, kid. Oh, and try using whole words. Thanks!"

[sturmclan.livejournal.com]

I totally agree and, as a person who creates things for others' consumption, I appreciate a "kudos" on its face as much as anybody else. I guess I just meant that if you're looking for feedback or input on something you've created, "this is awesome" is wonderful, but it isn't necessarily helpful IYKWIM?

I just really, really hate the whole "this sux & ur fat & ur mom's a beast" vibe that seems to be prevalent in online communities. I'm all for constructive feedback, but if you ain't got more than that, just click "next". y'know?

[greyduck.livejournal.com]

It's a matter of perspective, then: As a creator, what are you taking away from the commenting experience? The simple kudos and jabs are part of the "noise" (versus the "signal"), and even kudos are merely a good kind of noise from the perspective of figuring out what part of your craft worked versus what didn't.

Did I get it right? *grin*

I just really, really hate the whole "this sux & ur fat & ur mom's a beast" vibe that seems to be prevalent in online communities.

Hear, hear. I don't want a profanity filter; I want a maturity filter.

[sturmclan.livejournal.com]

I guess....yeah. You did. I take the positive kudos as a nice benefit, but if I'm looking/asking for feedback, then it's the more detailed feedback I'm looking for. Because "this rocks" is really nice to hear, but it doesn't give me anything to work with. However, "this rocks because...A, B, C, etc" does.

Am I making sense or do I sound like a looney?

[greyduck.livejournal.com]

No looney tunes detected, here!

[library-of-sex.livejournal.com]

Yeah, what's one person's "you suck" to te rest of your adoring public's "love your work" comments anyhow?

[mamapduck.livejournal.com]

"The dialogue is stilted and the characters are unengaging" is negative criticism one has to suck up and take. "It sucks" is Just Plain Mean. Not helping.

[dwg.livejournal.com]

"This sucks!" usually makes me raise an eyebrow, because I just want to know why. All those years of academia has taught me that you don't state anything without an argument to back you up.

Annnd responding to that sort of thing is really tough, because there's always the, "thanks for your feedback!" *smile like you're thinking of candy* which almost always sounds as phony as it is (or at least mine does, maybe it's something to do with just how obscenely cheerful I can be?) or taking the path of Laurell K. Hamilton (http://blog.laurellkhamilton.org/2006/12/dear-negative-reader.html) (I don't think I'll ever get tired of that wank).

The hard part, IMO, is figuring out just who you're listening to for the concrit. Obviously, "this sucks!" won't be helpful, but if it comes from someone you know and trust with their opinions, it might not be so bad because you know where you could be going wrong and they're just confirming it. It's sort of in that spirit that I've started to read the one star reviews of books on Amazon, just to see what they're like. I'll move onto the praise after I've seen just how literate and intelligent the detractors are.

[wendyzski.livejournal.com]

OK - I have the Cloverfield press kit in-hand, and I sent a scan of the photos page to your @livejournal address. I also have the full trailer on there in quicktime, so I can probably get decent screencaps off there but we all know how limited the trailer was. (No Darwin pics of course.

I CAM BTW confirm that Marlena 's tummy goes splodey in a BIG way - I frame-by-frame-advanced the trailer and it goes out to the SIDES. I'd not noticed. Icky!

[cleolinda.livejournal.com]

You might want to try that again, to my gmail address (cleolinda at)--the LJ emails seem to be down, as I haven't gotten things people say they've sent for weeks now. And I definitely have the trailer(s) capped--she swells up in a really big way, definitely. (I use KMPlayer, which automatically caps as many times a second as you want. Super convenient.)

[gold-tree.livejournal.com]

Right now I'm entering my final year at The School of the Art Institute of Chicago, and I thought I'd share a little bit of my experience with the critiquing process, because getting over an aversion non-constructive criticism was a big thing for me. In general, the majority of the critiques we have concern work that is entirely completed. Some classes have crits with work in-progress, which is something that I've never found very helpful, personally, because the way we critique involves the assumption that the work is complete. Because there is so much bullshit inherent in the fine arts, I have found that, as a reaction to that condition, the critiques are sometimes unnecessarily vicious or benignly, yet entirely, unconstructive. Often times people reject work simply because it does not gratify their own aesthetic or literary tastes. It has nothing to do with you or what you're trying to accomplish; it's a matter of personal agendas. Many, many times I have had to listen to people justifying their own personal and completely biased opinions as to why my work sucks, trying to dress it up as objective criticism.

As a result, I have created my own Internal Bullshit Filter. I listen to what everyone has to say, I make a show of carefully considering their opinions, and I filter out whatever is not relevant or applicable to my process as an artist. I have made the happy discovery that 99.9% of all criticism can be filtered out as bullshit.