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[cleolinda]

So I saw POTC3 again--this time with Sister Girl, who didn't even bother to see DMC in the theater (we did watch the DVD together about a month ago), but once I'd described how "dark and bizarre" the third movie is, she said, "You know... I think I'd actually like to see that." So:

I liked it more the second time--I'd felt so battered by spectacle that I had to see it again to really look at what the movie was about, as a narrative. Which is a highfalutin way of saying, it flowed better once I knew what was going to happen, as opposed to beating me about the head with awesomeness. I felt the same way about Dead Man's Chest, although that one's a crazy, sunny romp, so I didn't really care if it was a "good" movie or not. But I did need a second viewing to get my head around the whole thing. And you know what? I really liked At World's End, but I will go on record as saying that I still love Dead Man's Chest and all y'all haters can step. It's just so much fun, and while AWE has the trippiness and the wrenchingness and the apocalyptic doom going for it, I'd probably watch DMC if I needed cheering up (or Curse of the Black Pearl, for that matter). It's kind of the way that I'd rather watch Fellowship of the Ring than Return of the King if I only have time for one. Of course, I'd probably end up watching all three in both cases, but there you go.

Note: I saw each of the previous two movies exactly three times in the theater. So I'm probably going to see AWE again, if only because I'd hate not to do a threepeat (a threepeat threepeat)--and my mother still hasn't seen it, after all.

More observations, including a few I made already at Snarkfest:

>> As folks over there have pointed out, the sword that Norrington is given is, of course, the sword that Will made for him, which I did catch; and of course, it's also the one that Davy Jones picks up, saying "Nice sword," but I didn't follow it to the logical conclusion, which is that he later kills Will with it.

>> I heard Gibbs say "Sweet blessed Westley!" the first time I saw it, but it was the second viewing that convinced me it really was a Princess Bride reference. (Maybe he said "westerly." I don't know. However: Dread Pirate Legolas. Coincidence? I think not.)

>> If you look behind Davy Jones in the bucket scene, you will see three other buckets lined up behind him, because he had to use them to get to that part of the beach at all--and the distance between them even suggests that big monster stride of his. It's the little touches that mean so much.

(I can has bucket?)

>> I should clarify that what I meant by "Will! Get a bucket!" was that at least he could visit more frequently than every ten years; of course he's still got the soul-ferrying to do.

>> Davy Jones having a crab arm and leg suddenly made a lot more sense. However, I cannot say if, conversely, Tia Dalma always having a mouthful of ink is therefore also explained.

>> The Calypso thing still isn't as resolved as I would like, but I finally realized that Davy Jones falls into the very center of the vortex, like he and Calypso are now one, which at least is something. Also, it's kind of... Freudian. Although I guess you could argue that sometimes a giant female opening is just a giant female opening.

>> People complained about the Multiple Jacks continuing on through the movie, but I realized that he never has them unless he's under Davy Jones' power--in the Locker, and they're still in the Locker when he starts rocking the ship, and he's in the Dutchman's brig when the multiples show up again.

>> I think the place to clue people in on the "loved one meets you and you're free" thing would have been in the Tia Dalma/Davy Jones scene, because it would explain the seriousness of her betrayal a lot better, but then I realized that if they'd dropped that in there, Will having to become the new captain wouldn't have been as horrifying. It's like they had to sacrifice information for suspense, I guess.

>> The thing about the "Will is actually freed" point that wasn't in the movie is that it at least allows one thing: if you prefer the sadder ending, you can ignore the out-of-movie explanation and it's still yours. If knowing that the writers explain it that way, on the other hand, unbreaks your heart (cough) and improves the movie for you, well, you can have that version.

>> When Will comes back after the credits, his shirt is now white instead of red. Clearly, we should have understood that he was released at that point. Clearly.

>> I keep trying to figure out what Beckett's deal is, and all I can think is that he doesn't realize that Will is now the captain (and would obviously blow him to bits); he thinks that Jones still is (I didn't see anyone with a telescope who could have seen the change-out from that distance). So he thinks that Jones has betrayed him ("It's just... good business"), and he's finally on the losing end of all the bargains and betrayals. And maybe the concept of that just blows his tiny little mind. Maybe he so gets off on domination and superiority and power that it just really never occurred to him that defeat was possible; he was completely unprepared for it, and as a result, shut down. Maybe he has a Napoleon complex. I don't know.

>> Also, I saw some tidbit of a review that called the movie "soulless and corporate" or something like that, which kind of boggles me, because it seems to me like they made a lot of dark, potentially unpopular choices. People who weren't invested didn't have the story logic served up to them on a platter (no matter how you feel about that); Jack was involved in some really bizarre, surreal scenes; there was a lot of violence (and it wasn't happy summer blockbuster violence, it was hanged kids and women shot in the head and prominent characters dying tragically); they pushed the PG-13 line with the sexual innuendo and the leg-licking--I don't know, I think you could say that the movie is convoluted or overstuffed or self-indulgent, but "corporate" is about the last word I'd use to describe it. It wasn't a safe, bland, manufactured thing, and I think that this one potentially making less money is a testament to that. Which is a little like complaining that Disney will only make billions instead of trillions, but there you go.

>> Speaking of which: Box Office Mojo: "[Disney's Chuck] Viane noted that At World's End's grade from CinemaScore, which polls opening night moviegoers, was an "A-," about the same as Dead Man's Chest." So far it seems to be making less money than POTC2, but it's a lot darker and, more importantly, friggin'-ass long, so what're you gonna do.

>> bluebren (post): "The only other awesome thing that is not on this list was Ragetti being all 'BARBOSSA YOU ARE SUCH A TERRIBLE LOVER' and stammering in Tia Dalma's ear and it was so sweeeeeeeet. You'll notice one of the crabs she turned into ended up in his pants. "

>> reannaremick (post): I Freed Calypso From Her Human Form And All I Got Was A Nasty Case of Crabs.

>> ipomoea (post): "I'd seen references to the writers' comments on the curse in other LJs so out of curiosity I went and dug up their actual commentary. I'm just going to link to the thread, the Ted & Terry posts are easy to spot. They definitely confirm that the green flash at the end meant the curse was broken, which was what I was hoping was implied there."

>> lauramcvey (post): More confirmation.

>> laughingacademy with more support for the writers' explanation: "The 'Will Goes Ashore for Good If Elizabeth Is Faithful' happy ending was doubtlessly inspired by Richard Wagner’s opera based on the legend of the Flying Dutchman, in which the captain is allowed ashore once every seven years and will be redeemed if he can find a wife who will be true."

And then something DMC-related I noticed reading the main Flying Dutchman entry: "Versions of the story are numerous in nautical folklore and are related to earlier medieval legends such as that of Captain Falkenburg who was cursed to ply the North sea until Judgment Day, playing at dice with the Devil for his own soul."

>> And finally, quizzicalsphinx (post): "It's a sad day when Keith-bloody-Richards has to step in to keep other people from ripping apart a rented room."

Comments

[raynala.livejournal.com]

I need to see it again. There's so much I need to... see again to really "get."

One thing I don't understand about the Will possibly being freed thing, that my boyfriend pointed out. If he's free... does he die again, since he was killed and then stabbed the heart? I mean, his heart was damaged when he was stabbed. If the curse broke, would his heart be magically healed, or would he go back to his former state? Ohhhh the mind bogglyness of it all.

[cleolinda.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I don't know. I did notice, though, that he "died" after they'd helped him stab the heart; he was still alive when that happened. I don't know--I'm just handwaving the rest of it as Pirate Magic.

[last-archangel.livejournal.com]

"It's a sad day when Keith-bloody-Richards has to step in to keep other people from ripping apart a rented room."

XD

I didn't bother to stay for the post-credits ending, thinking it would be silly and vacuous again like with the monkey and dog. Instead, I miss the great conclusion I thought I would never see. I am a terrible romantic and AWE's original ending left me wanting to pull out my hair. I had to sneak around online to find the ending once I heard about it. Serves me right, I guess.

That is an awesome t-shirt.

I think the simple reason that Elizabeth couldn't got on the Dutchman was that she would have drowned with all of its frequent submergings. And visits would indefinitely be cut short by Will's new sqiddy-sense going off whenever there's a boat wreck in Calais or a tsunami in Tokyo. Some shit's always going down, considering the Earth is 75% ocean. I don't know, but that's my own view. I can see Bootstrap or some other trusted crew member, passing messages and locks of ickle William's hair and the like.

[thegeneralerin.livejournal.com]

Except that in DMC, Will was totally not dead when on the Flying Dutchman.

[life-on-queen.livejournal.com]

>> When Will comes back after the credits, his shirt is now white instead of red. Clearly, we should have understood that he was released at that point. Clearly.

This? This makes up for my crushing disappointment at how they left Elizabeth. Because, white shirt? Clearly a sign that he had been freed. Of course. How could I miss that? *headslap*

[life-on-queen.livejournal.com]

Also, FWIW, i would be surprised that POTC's bo ticks up when the final totals are counted. With the holiday weekend, I'd be very shocked if the late shows tonight aren't near sell-outs.

[chocotaku.livejournal.com]

[youngcurmudgeon.livejournal.com]

Much icon love.

[schnuggleme.livejournal.com]

"Sweet blessed Westley!"

I thought it was "westerlies"...?

I just found that cheezburger site today... hilarious, so I am going to use that second icon one day, thankee.

[metonymy.livejournal.com]

I heard it as "westerly," and a reaction to the fact that they were no longer becalmed in the locker but in the real world with a westerly wind.

[theatershadow25.livejournal.com]

>> bluebren (post): "The only other awesome thing that is not on this list was Ragetti being all 'BARBOSSA YOU ARE SUCH A TERRIBLE LOVER' and stammering in Tia Dalma's ear and it was so sweeeeeeeet. You'll notice one of the crabs she turned into ended up in his pants. "
*dies from ironic laughter* That part was great though.

I'm still blown away by the movie. Everything was so intense; I got an adrenaline rush just from sitting there and watching all of it, of course, I could only vent it my running out and yelling about it to my friends who work there. The cinematography, the writing, the acting (Johnny Depp's finest... 3 hours)... all amazing.
I also hold it in great respect because they didn't crap out on the sailing bits. The locked rigging, Green flash, etc, are all plausible and factual.
The Beckett walk, though, was not.

[kirpunz.livejournal.com]

Think of what they could do with a large bathtub.

[cleolinda.livejournal.com]

Heh, that's what I said to my sister this afternoon.

Did you notice?

[dakiwiboid.livejournal.com]

I saw a woman listed in the tech credits named "Jennifer Teach"! It's driving me nuts, though, because I don't see her listed on any of the movie's websites. I love that name, though, because of Teach being Blackbeard's real name.

[cerridwen666.livejournal.com]

I haven't seen it, but really, I have to ask, what is the deal with the end scene and the kid? I'm getting annoyed with the "Who's my baby daddy?"

[cleolinda.livejournal.com]

What do you mean? It seemed pretty obvious to me that Will was the father.

[bri-chan.livejournal.com]

All this talk of buckets inspired me to draw. XD



Also, Ragetti's sexy whisper is on Youtube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jk2xyQ-7m0Q).

[cleolinda.livejournal.com]

Hee, Ragetti. What I love about that part is that, for him, "the way a lover would say it" is actually kind of timid and awestruck. Awwww.

Also, it cracks me the hell up that Barbossa's interpretation of that is shouting.

(Awww, OTP!)

[metonymy.livejournal.com]

"Battered by spectacle" is a really good way to put it - I know I spent about half an hour towards the end with my jaw hanging because SO MUCH SHIT WAS GOING DOWN OMGWTFBBQ. And a lot of the stuff you brought up here is the stuff I keep thinking about. Definitely need to see this one again.

The "soulless and corporate" remark is really funny given that Beckett, the most soulless corporate sleazy bastard of them all, is the villain and gets a huge fiery comeuppance.

[cleolinda.livejournal.com]

Heh, true. As for the battering, it still wasn't as bad as DMC, which, again, I loved--and in a much more immediate way, because I loved both the hamster wheel sequences and the swordfights--but I was so shellshocked by just the noise and the action by the end of it.

[arielchan.livejournal.com]

I will go on record as saying that I still love Dead Man's Chest and all y'all haters can step.

WERD.

[cleolinda.livejournal.com]

Fantastic swordfights! Sugar-bowl beaches! Snarky Norrington! Hamster wheels! THE KRAKEN! What is there not to love??

[last-archangel.livejournal.com]

A lot of people seem to be complaining that Turner the Third is named William. My reply to this is, it is better that Elizabeth name her son after his father, as opposed to her father. Governer Swann's name was Weatherby. That just ain't sexy, and this kid has to have a sexy name, given that he's going to grown up with the curse and blessing of looking like his yummy parents.

[divacita.livejournal.com]

Maybe he is named William Weatherby Turner. That way both her Father & Husband are honored.

[eris-amazing.livejournal.com]

First? time commenter, and I totally agree with pretty much everything you said about the film. And yes, those haters have to step off DMC, I know people refusing to see AWE because of DMC. I just wanted to add that poor Jones has be the foundation for a bunch of new emo jokes in my circle of friends:

Davy Jones: So emo, he uses his tentacles to wipe away his tears.

[spiffybug.livejournal.com]

Just to let you know, Emo Davy Jones just made my day. :D Thanks!

[chocolat-violet.livejournal.com]

Before I read the "break-the-curse" comment, I respected how the movie was ended (even with the after the credits bit; I was all bittersweet!squee). I do have to say, I didn't like the ending at all, but I felt that this was the only way to end. However, now my heart is glued back together, and my world is in perfect balance once again.

[wtfbrain.livejournal.com]

I am still puzzled as to why they cut out Will's heart - that wasn't part of the original deal that Davy Jones had, he only cut it out after Calypso wasn't there when he came ashore after his first ten years. Also, "the Dutchman must always have a captain" - if Will is free, who's the captain now?

I honestly can't decide if I like the "Will is free" ending. On the one hand, I liked the tragic no happily ever after ending, but on the other, aww, Twu Wuv triumphs, y'know?

[thunderphoenix.livejournal.com]

As for Will's successor, I can see Bootstrap stepping up. Either that, or Jack finally decided that maybe the FD wasn't such a bad gig after all.

[theatershadow25.livejournal.com]

Oh, here's a link for all y'all who like the little technical bits.
http://www.woodenboatvb.com/vbulletin/upload/showthread.php?t=65645&highlight=pirates

I just wish I could have one of those backstage passes for the flag.

[rileycakes.livejournal.com]

MUSTANG FOR THE WIN

[futureperfect.livejournal.com]

The thing I never got about Beckett, was when he saw the Black Pearl and the Flying Dutchman lining up to take the HMS Dauntless with a spiffy new paint job Endeavour on, why HE didn't shout "fire".

You're in a ship with what, something like 102 guns poised and waiting to fire and you just let THEM gun you down? YHALOTHAR, NO EARTH LOGIC.

[cleolinda.livejournal.com]

See, that's what I was struggling with. All I can figure is that his tiny little brainstem snapped at the idea that the Dutchman had turned on him. The thing is, he could have turned the Pearl into Swiss cheese with those guns, but the Dutchman is unkillable--you can blow it to bits and it'll just come right back. So, maybe having seen what happened when he himself unleashed the Dutchman on those ships at the beginning of the movie, the Dutchman coming after the Endeavour just looked like a lost cause at that point.

I actually enjoyed the imagery of Beckett walking down the stairs, but yeah, it's not a plot point that makes the most sense. It's like he gave up because the movie needed him to.

[megathy27.livejournal.com]

I wholeheartedly agree that it's better the second time around - everything makes more sense once you have a sense of the story, and you can look out for the details that help it.

I missed the bit about the sword both times through, that's awesome - even his craftwork has a destiny (i has a destiny?).

[kookaburra1701.livejournal.com]

I'm with you with loving DMC. I can't really understand how people could not like it if they liked CotBP, or even crazy swashbuckling and Zoidberg cosplay in general.

[elsajeni.livejournal.com]

I wasn't a big fan of DMC, and now that I've seen AWE, and remembering that they were both made at the same time, I have a theory as to why -- I think that, to some extent, the filmmakers started thinking of the two sequels as one GIANT movie and forgot that the audience would be seeing them separated by a year, and as a result, a lot of DMC was basically setup for what happened in AWE and it didn't stand alone very well. At least, not in my opinion (and the people I saw it with felt pretty much the same way).

[cleolinda.livejournal.com]

As I said, I like all three movies, but yeah, I definitely feel like CotBP is one movie and DMC/AWE are another. The tones of the first on one hand and the two-part sequel, as it were, on the other really are different, yeah.

as a result, a lot of DMC was basically setup for what happened in AWE and it didn't stand alone very well

I rationalize this by saying that DMC was about escaping Davy Jones and the kraken (the crew succeeded, Jack failed), while AWE is about defeating Jones and Beckett. So in that sense, they are two (slightly) separate storylines, because it's only at the end of DMC that Jones is forcibly allied with Beckett. But I mean, that's how I look at it--that explanation might not work for everyone.

[thunderphoenix.livejournal.com]

Ya know, I would have liked seeing some resolution with Davy/Caly. Maybe seeing their outlines in the background of the post-credit scene, finally forgiving each other or something like that.

[starlights-1.livejournal.com]

They live in her hut now, and entertain visitors with EIC tea. :P

[caligogreywings.livejournal.com]

I might be a bit slow, but Beckett seemed a little randomly stuck in, to me. I can't quite put him into a good place, by which I mean, where the hell he came from. I guess because Norrington was mostly out of the way, we still needed a nasty-bad-man to be the bad guy to represent the King and make life hard for our heroes pirates.

[demonqueen666.livejournal.com]

However, I cannot say if, conversely, Tia Dalma always having a mouthful of ink is therefore also explained.

Insert my fifteen-year-old inappropriate giggle-fit here.

[cleolinda.livejournal.com]

Moo ha ha. I always love making dirty jokes that people probably won't get.

[youngcurmudgeon.livejournal.com]

Eeeee! Bucket icons! ~snags~ Thanks!

I saw it with my family today, and I realized that the coolest part of this movie was the snippet of sound from the ride that plays when they go into the locker. My sister turned to me and said, "wait, so hell is that ride over and over, with not being able to afford anything in the gift shop?"

Also, I'd like to toss Barbossa's hat into the ring as future captain of the Dutchman. I think he's crazy enough to do it; plus, that way Jack still gets the Pearl.

[ninepointfivemm.livejournal.com]

Riding the ride over and over again is actually not half bad. I did it something like, 3 or 4 times when I went to Disneyland once.

...Then again, it was always my favorite ride at the two parks.