(no subject)

[cleolinda]

Just as a coda to the Charlotte Lennox thing, we have at least two confirmations of some of the skullduggery. Given that she's admitted to being sporkify and the police have definitively disproven the Louis Movello thing, it's pretty much over, I think. I'm saying this because--it's none of my business, but--well, hell, I'm always sticking my nose into everything, so why stop now? A lot of good has come from people realizing that they were deceived and fed misinformation, and a lot of old feuds are being resolved. I'm largely seeing people who are more than willing to reconcile and forgive and write a lot of mistakes off as the influence of one person. But there are a few people doing the ostrich thing, I'm hearing--burying their heads and claiming it's not important or that it doesn't matter that people were hurt. I have a feeling that a lot of this reaction is caused by fear and--not guilt, exactly, but feeling very uncomfortable with what's been revealed. Worrying that people are going to gloat at them, or rub in past mistakes, or do the dance of I Told You So. And I just wanted to take this opportunity to say that I'm not seeing that. I'm seeing a lot of people coming together and embracing anyone who fell afoul of this person, whether they were attacked or whether they acted, unknowingly, on her misinformation. I'm just saying, don't be afraid. No one's going to make you eat crow. If you were a good friend of this person, no one's asking you to burn her at the stake without question. I've seen several people comment on the Charlotte Lennox entries saying that they think it's perfectly reasonable that a close friend might start asking questions, but wouldn't desert someone entirely. No one's demanding that you defriend people and renounce them and believe everything the accusers say unquestioningly. It's just that, in the the long run, it'll be a lot better to say, "Okay, clearly something is going on here, and I don't know how I feel about that yet, but yes, people were hurt, and they have my sympathy" than to just pretend that it didn't happen or it doesn't matter. You don't have to bow and scrape and beg forgiveness for some vague sin. Just acknowledge that something hurtful happened, even if we're still in the discovery process and aren't entirely sure what's what yet. I think acknowledgement is all that people really want from others who were equally deceived.

Comments

[handful.livejournal.com]

... remember when fandom was all about the Porn?

[cleolinda.livejournal.com]

And someday, it will be again. Have faith. ; )

[alchemy]

Yeah, I'm really not seeing it, either, which is extremely heartening. I think it's important that this got resolved, just as you said. If anything, it seems to be bringing the fandom together, and not just to wank, like we're used to. I've noticed almost zero wank. Most people are just stunned, and feel terrible that it happened.

[cleolinda.livejournal.com]

I'm seeing a teensy bit of wank, but it's mostly from people who are all like, "Why do we have to taaaalk about this? It makes me feel baaaaad!" Well, OKAY then.

[shoiryu.livejournal.com]

I think the people who are going "Why do we have to bring this up nooowwwwwwwww?" just look like bigger asses than the ones who're apologizing, so. Their own fault.

[cleolinda.livejournal.com]

Well, yes. I can think of a couple of hardcore whiners that I don't think would get any good out of this. But I've seen a few people waffling over how to respond, and I'm hoping that if we reassure them that it'll be okay and we won't run them out of town for something they didn't actually do anyway, more people will follow, say, irinaauthor's example.

[bibliotech.livejournal.com]

I'll admit, through the first couple of installments, I kept going "I don't know any of these people. Why should I care?" And then it got worse. And worse. And so much worse. And now it really doesn't matter if I know any of them or not, it's just...awful and it really is general enough where it could happen to any fandom, any group of people online or offline, just...gah.

[dhaunea.livejournal.com]

Having, once upon a time, been badly mauled by someone I cared about and trusted and finding out, after the fact, that she had made a career of mauling people, including people I knew and that there'd been an embarrassed cover-up of the last time and thus no one warned me...?

I lost a lot of friends over that. Not because they'd been taken in as I had, but because they'd covered it up and left her free to do it again and again and again.

It's never a crime to be deceived. It's admirable to want to stand by your friends. If her friends can find out what happened, perhaps present a different version or clear up some of the confusion/timeline, I'd say more power to them.

... but to try to decry the fact that someone wanted to have the facts be known or to attempt to cover the entire thing over....

That's just never a good idea and as a lot of these people are serial offenders, bringing it out into the open is a good move, if only to help keep others from having the same thing happen to them.

I feel really, really bad for everyone involved and I remember watching most of this from the sidelines and just... cringing.

[cleolinda.livejournal.com]

See, exactly. No one will feel anything but respect for you if you come forward now.

[tavella.livejournal.com]

Mmm. I'm not involved enough in this to investigate further, but there's something that's making me very cynical. That is, apparently the Christina story is being presented as 'attacked a woman dying of cancer'. Except I remember the Christina bit (I'm not in HP but it splashed over my friendslist). Christina had had cancer, but was in remission and had been for years (my dim memory was that she had a exotic but not life threatening type, but that I'm not completely certain of). Her doctors had recommended that she get gastric reduction because her weight was threatening her health; she wanted it done at the Mayo clinic instead of locally (I think she was in Tennessee), and while her medical insurance would cover the cost, they wouldn't cover hotels etc.

Now, all this was very clear on the site; Christina and her daughter could be very artful in their postings (talking about the cancer and then immediately jumping to 'need money for this trip'), but they never actual lied that I saw, and the site had scans of various correspondence.

But when people pointed this out, there was absolute foaming rage and people would scream again and again SHE'S DYING OF CANCER. It was freaky, the complete denial of reality even though you could see the evidence right on Christina's site.

As far as I could tell, basically a there had been a long standing war in HP fandom, and one faction had seized on this as a club to bring the other side down. And they were so desperate to do this that when people pointed out that it wasn't actually a very good club that they went ballastic in rage.

Now, all of this doesn't mean that msscribe or whoever was couldn't have been happily using the war going on to attack Christina unfairly; as I said, while she was artful about letting people draw wrong conclusions, she didn't directly lie that I saw and the facts were on her site for people who were capable of logical analysis. But the fact that whoever this chronicler is is using the lie "dying of cancer" to make msscribe look worse... well, looks to me like just another variant on the same game as msscribe is being accused of playing (and may have been.)

[cleolinda.livejournal.com]

I can't speak to the severity of Christina's health problems, but it has always made me uncomfortable that people used "dying of cancer" as a shorthand for what she was going through. If you look at the latest entry on her journal, she seems to be at a very low point right now and not doing very well at all, but I'm not sure you can say that someone's dying except in retrospect. Which is to say, I agree with you that "dying" may not be accurate or fair to the other side. But I understand the urge to use it as a shorthand for "suffering and may not get better, and in fact may get worse." And somehow, to me, exaggerating a health situation that is, in all reality, pretty bad as it is, isn't on the level of creating a dozen sockpuppets and playing one half of fandom against the other half.

[darkrosetiger.livejournal.com]

Worrying that people are going to gloat at them, or rub in past mistakes, or do the dance of I Told You So. And I just wanted to take this opportunity to say that I'm not seeing that. I'm seeing a lot of people coming together and embracing anyone who fell afoul of this person, whether they were attacked or whether they acted, unknowingly, on her misinformation.

I've seen some gloating, and a lot of, "How could you be that stupid, to fall for that?"

If this brings closure to people who were genuinely hurt, then that's wonderful. However, I'm noticing a lot of people proclaiming that "THIS STORY MUST BE TOLD!" who weren't there, and who weren't at all involved. Speaking as someone who was in the fandom at the time, and who was tangentially involved--I'm not feeling the righteous anger. The biggest thing that she's accused of is actually something she didn't do--shutting down GT. To me, it's more sad than anything, as well as being a searing commentary on the Cult of the BNF in fandom. Whoever she really is, she's a very sick person, and I hope for the sake of her family that she gets the help she needs...but I just don't have it in me to gloat.

[cleolinda.livejournal.com]

I do think there's some self-righteous fervor, which is perhaps as inevitable as the "Wooooe, I was just a victim!" cry you're going to hear from people who may have known more than they let on. I don't feel any gloat myself--this isn't everyone, of course, but I'm seeing a lot of people who are mostly stunned that someone would go to these lengths in the first place. Which is why I don't think people who have been deceived are going to be blamed (by and large; I mean, yes, ari_o was trolled), because most of us are united in one big circle of "Dude, wtf?"

[much-reality.livejournal.com]

I'm actually as sorry for the friends as the more obvious victims. If a good friend of mine did something like this, I'd not believe it till I had a stack of evidence this high, either. I mean, who would?

Finding out a person you cared for and trusted has pulled something like this must be like being cheated on. That level of hurt and betrayal and humiliation. I definitely think that they're as much her victims as those who were slandered.

[ibejedi.livejournal.com]

sorry to be off topic...but ICON LOVE!!!! That made my day!!

[kali921.livejournal.com]

I read here but rarely comment. I read through that epic expose, and wow. Just wow. I'm not even in that fandom, but I found it morbidly fascinating. I will say I'd have more respect for Charlotte Lennox if she'd reveal who she is, because he/she seems to be engaging in the same behavior that he/she is exposing.

Makes all of my other fandoms seem like welcoming bastions of sanity, and I'm in some batshit fandoms, to be sure.

I can't help but wonder at the timing of all of this.

[pinstripe-bindi.livejournal.com]

Wow, I *so* have no idea what all this is about. I love HP but I'm not involved in the fandom at all--precisely because it's filled with these kinds of shenanigans, I guess. Why were the police involved, if you don't mind my asking? (If it's too long a story, just say so, I won't be madatcha.)

[cleolinda.livejournal.com]

Several years ago, msscribe claimed she was being stalked by a college student Louis Movello, "fermatojam," and reported him to the police. It turned out that fermatojam was *her*--a sockpuppet--and therefore, clearly, she had never reported anything to the police. This is one of the early allegations in the Charlotte Lennox account, so people were saying, "You know, msscribes supporters, if you want something to refute, prove that Louis Movello exists." People googled and found a middle-aged LM in a different state, and a Joanne Movello in msscribe's state, but that was all. So then--I get hazy on this part--apparently yesterday msscribe said, "Okay, fine, here's some information to check out" and passed it through a couple of people to angua9. Angua made the call to the police department in question. Not only had they never heard of LM or had any report on him, the detective msscribe claimed to have spoken to *didn't work for the department in 2003.* So that's the whole police thing.

[all-ephemera.livejournal.com]

I think that this is one of those rare cases in my life where I'm actually glad I'm utterly in the dark.

[theatre-angel.livejournal.com]

I think the whole thing is exceedingly interesting. I only got through about seven chapters because I am impatient, but I skimmed through the last few and got a general idea of what's going on. I'm barely involved with any fandoms on LJ, but I think I find this whole thing so intriguing because it shows how much the Internet has enhanced communication since it first started out. I know that isn't really the point of what the author set out to do, but I thought it was a neat speculation, nonetheless.

[lenamoster.livejournal.com]

Is it even possible to give a bare-bones account of what the panda is going on?

[draconifers.livejournal.com]

I feel really sorry for the friends...(ari_o). That is horrible. Ugh!

[katrionaa.livejournal.com]

This is really hard for her friends to find out. I'm sad for myself but even more for my friends who took actions based on her allegations. I believe in being loyal to my friends and so I'm not going to jump on any bandwagon that condemns them, I'm going to require a fair amount of proof. I don't care for the implications from a few people that charlottelennox alone should have convinced me, after all the bio comes from some people who have a real reason to dislike her. The things that have come to light today have convinced me.

I have never believed that one or a few fans represent a certain site e.g., that fermatojam was representative of people at GT forums or of the GT admins. But if I ever gave the impression that GT was a place where Nutty Christians were welcome or where racism was tolerated, I apologize for that. If I did give that impression that was my fault, I was misinformed but I should also have taken what I was told with a bigger grain of salt.

[cleolinda.livejournal.com]

See, and I think that's all that can really be expected right now. I don't think anyone can be blamed for standing by their friends per se, or for requiring independently verified proof (apparently oulangi also called the police and confirmed both angua's findings and that angua called in the first place). And, again, I'm seeing a lot of sympathy for people who acted on msscribe's allegations in good faith--believing that she told the truth.

[bardintraining.livejournal.com]

As I feel only half-certain of what's going on right now, does anyone know if this will show up on Wikipedia any time soon? Or is there some kind of source link that I can flow through to other links by? Every link I've gone to so far I've gotten sidetracked by clicking a few links out of about fifty and then I get lost and have to go back and start again. Is there any kind of main source where I can read all this?

[cleolinda.livejournal.com]

The Fandom Wank Wiki is down, or I'd point you there. The link in this entry is directly to the FW entry, which may be a good starting point. My summary of it is here (http://cleolinda.livejournal.com/406392.html?thread=18867064#t18867064). Charlotte Lennox's outline is here (http://www.journalfen.net/users/charlottelennox/).

[missaustralia.livejournal.com]

Word, Cleo.

I'm one of the ones over at bad_penny saying, no, her friends deserve the chance to investigate for themselves. Because I'm not one of her friends, and I never was. But lots of my friends - including katrionaa up there - *are* her friends.

And if this was me - if I was accused of doing all this - I'd desperately want to believe that my friends would not believe the words of a stranger (albeit a well-researched and persuasive one) before coming to me and asking me for an explanation.

I don't know that fandom as a whole can be asked to give msscribe the benefit of doubt, but I do believe her friends have the right to their own investigations, whatever they choose to pursue.

[pinkfinity.livejournal.com]

I'd desperately want to believe that my friends would not believe the words of a stranger (albeit a well-researched and persuasive one) before coming to me and asking me for an explanation.

And that's what happened back in 2003/4 - zorac and other techies said there was an explanation for the inconclusive IP matches, and a number of people asked her point blank and she said it wasn't her and she still says it wasn't her, and at this point, while I am extremely skeptical of what she says, I was extremely blindsided by all this, and I don't think there's anything wrong with taking a week to see if (a) a police report shows up and (b) the contents of that report can be independently confirmed with the issuing department/office. So that's basically what I am waiting on now.

[the-bumper-car.livejournal.com]

Your link to fandom wank, is not working. Are you sure you're not trying to link to this entry? http://www.journalfen.net/community/fandom_wank/958845.html

[cleolinda.livejournal.com]

I was, but oddly the link takes me to that exact page. I'll check the coding.

[ibejedi.livejournal.com]

I too am a total outsider to this whole thing, but I read all 10 chapters and wow, what a crazy crazy ride. It is so amazing the types of things that can happen nowadays via the internet...and I found the whole thing completely absorbing!! I could only wish I had as much time on my hands as this msscribe person did!!! Thanks for sharing it with all of us!

Totally Unrelated

[bluinkalchemist.livejournal.com]

Where do you add the code for the site buttons at the bottom of all your entries?

Re: Totally Unrelated

[cleolinda.livejournal.com]

At the end of the entry--I do it manually, as if it's just another link, by C&Ping it from the previous entry. If I post more than one entry in a day, particularly a very short one, I often don't bother with it the second or third time.

[artificialamore.livejournal.com]

so.. wow. i just wasted like 6 hours of my life reading all of that. but it was very interesting, and i saw your name too.

thanks for posting it.

[modpixie.livejournal.com]

out of curiosity, how is this different from the kaycee nicole hoax (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaycee_Nicole)? i'm waaaaaaaaay on the outskirts of potter fandom (like the books fine, have friends who love the books and write non-ooky fic, etc.) and this seemed a bit like kaycee nicole all over again.

[cleolinda.livejournal.com]

It's very much like that, actually. And the truth is, it's going to happen again. I don't think people are ever going to learn. It just might be a little easier to believe next time.

Totally off topic but so necessary

[rectpropagation.livejournal.com]

I apologize if everybody and their brother has heard this but I just found out how far AOL will go to prevent you from canceling your account with them:

AOL requires deceased customer to call to cancel service (http://www.consumerist.com/consumer/top/aol-wants-to-sell-%22internet%22-to-the-dead-182185.php)

Audio of customer trying to cancel AOL service (http://www.consumerist.com/consumer/top/the-best-thing-we-have-ever-posted%3A-reader-tries-to-cancel-aol-180392.php)

This is insane! Why haven't they been sued?

[this-quiet.livejournal.com]

And this is precisely why I prefer being in the sidelines when it comes to fandom.

What's funny though, is that while whole wars have been raised in shipping, it usually turns out that the shipping is almost a footnote to the mess created in forums, ljs and the like. Shipping almost becomes a "non-point", the small grain which everything is precariously balanced on. People take shipping as an IDENTITY and not as an ISSUE, and as an identity warrants such passionate defending and attacks. I think Msscribe was very successful in drawing out the prejudices of people involved in ship wars, as the writer of this "expose" said, and manipulating sympathies because, as I mentioned, topics like shipping usually take an intensely personal facade when in truth, shipping is only shipping. Shipping is only a preference. It is is not a belief system. Shipping is shipping: Nothing more and nothing else.

I think the same is true as to the other issues that became identities -- the charity fights, the Bush supporters -- instead of taking a step back and surveyed the bigger picture, it might have been a smaller war. I think this just brings to light that there's still a lot of intolerance going around, intolerance in the sense that we are not as open or as willing to accept other people's opinions as we think we are.

In any case, a very interesting read. Thank you for linking it.

[blinkliz.livejournal.com]

^ Very well said. ♥

[tifaria.livejournal.com]

I read most of this yesterday and have two parts left to go, and.. yikes. Just yikes. I've been in a similar situation in real life, and without getting tl;dr here, I'll just say that anyone who wants to be nasty about no one noticing anything has obviously never been duped before. It is very, very easy for the right person to come along and convince you of certain things, especially if those certain things are exactly what you want to hear. And if it's that easy in real life, think of how much easier it must be on the Internet.

I can't imagine, can't even begin to imagine how the people closest to her must be feeling. I don't know any of them, didn't even know who this msscribe was before I started reading, and.. I just feel for them. It sucks for everyone involved.