(no subject)

[cleolinda]

A few Lost icons--only eight, but there you are.



I've just put up a whole mess of Padme "Heroine Addict" icons over at icon_wh0res, so if you want them, go join up!


Feeling anxious, for some reason. Probably about the whole book-banning thing--I just sort of got a wild activist hair on last night, and now I'm sort of wondering what I've gotten myself into. I'm sure y'all won't believe this, but I'm still pretty shy in a lot of situations, and I'm beginning to wonder if I'm really equipped for the role I just sort of magically assumed. I've got a reply from Rep. Gaines in my email right now that I just. can't. bring myself. to read, because I'm afraid of what it says. "Massive neurosis" is not really a good quality for any kind of leader, really. Not that I don't want to press on, but--you just sort of wake up and realize that somehow today is very different from yesterday and wonder what exactly you've done.

Still, I asked Clifton, My Gay Boyfriend, about going to the HRC dinner meeting that Maggie (hi, Maggie!) brought up in the comments, and it looks like we're going to go. (Clifton: "I didn't even know we had a branch of the HRC in Birmingham! I'm such a bad fag.")

I'm probably anxious about the paper and exam I have due next week, too, even though I'm already mentally on Christmas break. Fnarr.





Okay, I can't stand it. I can't say "I've got the guy's email reply" and then, in any conscience, not tell you what he said. I was only able to make myself glance over it, in my nervousness, but he seems to have an interesting critique of our (read: my) approach, and since Rep. Gaines, of all people, knows how the other legislators tick, keep what he says in mind:

Thanks for the email. I've not read Rep. Allen's bill yet so I will not take a position on it until I do. From what I read in the paper his bill may extend as far as public libraries and colleges - that would be a stretch. But again, I need to read the bill.

As to "book banning" or "censorship" in elementary schools, middle schools and the like, we have and do ban and censor what our children read as well we should. What is banned and censored is generally left up to the local school systems with, in theory, parental input. The middle school removed a horrible book my daughter brought home when she was in the sixth grade. I won't get into the details of the book, but we have an established system and review process to "censor" or remove books from the school library.

If you are seeking my advice as to approaching legislators in voicing your opposition to Allen's bill I would definitely try to avoid reactionary arguments such as "We should never ban or censor any book anywhere." Every parent censors what their children read either directly or indirectly - or at least they should. I would also advise you not use the argument that Alabama would be "backwards" if we passed such a measure. And I would not argue that we would look bad to the "rest of the world." I don't believe those arguments would do anything to advance your cause and might even have the opposite effect. Finally, with respect to this issue or any other, threats to defeat a legislator at the polls if they don't vote a given way never ever works and only results in the legislator tuning out everything you have or will say on the subject. They know better than anyone what issues will or will not get them in trouble with voters.

I would keep your arguments on an intellectual level and avoid rhetorical statements. You may even do better to concede that censoring what our children read is not only acceptable but responsible. We all censor in every aspect of our lives to some degree. "Censor" is not a bad word - it can have bad applications. I did visit your web site and noticed you rather openly censor the comments to your web site. I'm not being critical. It's just an observation.

Thank you again for your email and I hope you will write often. I'll look forward to reading the Allen legislation as the next regular session of the Legislature approaches.

Mark Gaines


ETA: My reply:

Thanks for replying so promptly. I appreciate your taking the time to give me a very thoughtful critique of our approach. It's easy for us to be indignant about something, and indignation can get change started, but I don't think that it's the prime mover in the end.

I had to laugh when you noted the censorship on my journal--it's true, even though I've never felt the need to do that before. My argument would be, however, that the First Amendment "protects the right to (...) freedom of expression from government interference." It's one thing for one person to prohibit expression on a single website that she pays for; if another Livejournal user wants to express himself, he can go to his own journal. The problem, as I'm sure you see, is this (I'm quoting from the al.com article here):

"If the bill became law, public school textbooks could not present homosexuality as a genetic trait and public libraries couldn't offer books with gay or bisexual characters. (...) His bill also would prohibit a teacher from handing out materials or bringing in a classroom speaker who suggested homosexuality was OK, he said."

(http://www.al.com/news/birminghamnews/index.ssf?/base/news/1101896768316400.xml)

I had to reconsider my definition of censorship, but yes, you're right: censorship is useful and necessary. The problem is that one group here is deciding what should be censored for the entire state, as opposed to more individual decisions--a school deciding not to teach "Cat on a Hot Tin Roof," a parent deciding that her child shouldn't read "Heather Has Two Mommies." I'm free to censor my own journal; if someone disagrees with me, he may not be able to reply directly, but he can post a rebuttal in his own journal. A bill like this takes the freedom of personal censorship away, if that makes any sense.

But this is something I wouldn't have been able to articulate if you hadn't brought it up in the first place. Thanks for taking the time to discuss this with me. I've been invited to a meeting of the Birmingham Human Rights Campaign, and I'll be sure to bring up some of the points you've mentioned--as emotional as we may feel about the issue, I agree, it's probably not the best way to argue it. Thanks so much again.

[Me]


I can't believe I ended up arguing for "the right of personal censorship," but hey, if that's the language the legislature will understand, I'll speak it.

Comments

[practicesmiling.livejournal.com]

"Massive neurosis" is not really a good quality for any kind of leader, really.

Only at the state and local levels. ^_^

[http://users.livejournal.com/_waterlilies/]

I told my friend Craig about this whole thing and linked back to your entry. He's a librarian (granted, a librarian from New Jersey, but I figured he might have a connection or two down your way) and he was horribly pissed. He even used strong language. ;D

I understand how it is to get on a soapbox and go all activist one night and then be really, really nervous about it the next day, but ultimately, I think what you're doing is right, if that helps any.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_waterlilies/]

Oh, yeah, and I really like your reply. (Psst. I think you might've forgotten to take your real name off the bottom.)

[cleolinda.livejournal.com]

Thanks. The most interesting part is how I'm having to dial down the righteous fury in order to successfully make my point, which is not something people generally do in American politics. But it seems to be working (so far). I mean--I guess you can be right, or you can win. I'd rather win.

[leucocrystal]

I must say, I felt a bit at a loss when I saw his reply, thinking "Hmm... how can we bite back, make sense, but be smart and reasonable? And still be arguing the right thing?"

But there you went, hitting the nail right on the head -- a state censoring their entire population is very different compared to a mother and her child(ren), or a school and their students.

Props to you for spotting it! I probably wouldn't have.

[cleolinda.livejournal.com]

I have to give my mother credit for that--we were talking about that, and that was the first thing she jumped on. I was initially surprised that she'd said something similar about not really wanting "Heather Has Two Mommies" where little kids could find it, at which point I said that an evenhanded approach would be fine--put ALL children's books having to do with sexuality, het or gay (like a baby book called "What's Growing In Mommy's Tummy?," or whatever) on a top shelf and let a parent decide in either case. But the parent still has the right to decide, rather than have the book frickin' buried in a hole somewhere like this guy wants.

[arayuldaiel.livejournal.com]

I really like his reply, and you're reply to it; proof that some Americans can actually talk coherently on the internet.

When do you 'officially' start Christmas break? (Even though we're all already on it mentally ^_^) Our last day is the 16th - leaving me a free day to go see Lemony Snicket, YESS!

[cleolinda.livejournal.com]

All my stuff is due the 9th. Now that I'm at this school, for some reason, we seem to let out for the holidays a lot sooner.

[comedownstairs.livejournal.com]

I just have to say you absolutely rock for doing this.

[cleolinda.livejournal.com]

Thanks. At least I didn't make a *total* fool out of myself. ; )

[brenah.livejournal.com]

Go Cleo!

And thank you for the icons :) I snagged a few, gonna use this one for a bit ;)

[missmurchison.livejournal.com]

I don't think "censorship" is the best word for the kind of decision-making your rep is talking about, but you need to use the language that works to win this.

I've been following this story, and I want to cheer you on from a distance. I've lived in the south, and one of the things that bothers me is that I do hear people saying, "Well, that's Alabama." That's crap. There are people like Rep Allen all over, who are willing to use cheap tricks like this (because that's what I believe this is) to gain the admiration of a certain constituency. And that constituency exists all over the country.

Books are constantly being challenged everywhere in this country, and we need to back our libraries' Freedom to Read policies.

Also, we recently had a ludicrous non-book burning at a local church. The fire marshall refused to let them burn books within city limits (I think he must have snickered when he said it) so they stood around throwing books and CDs into trash cans while they held up lighters and candles.

[cleolinda.livejournal.com]

Snerrrrrrrk.

[rpp.livejournal.com]

To be completely frivolous and ignore the serious aspects of this post (though I think what you're doing is awesome, and I wish I could do more to help), I just have to say that the "Thank God for the pimp smugglers" icon has made my week. Month, even.

[cleolinda.livejournal.com]

Yay!

Seriously, though, I understand. I'm trying to figure out how to balance an entry that's basically like, "Breaking news: A statement from the ALA and OMG A BATMAN BEGINS POSTER WHEE."

[longtimegone]

That's excellent. It's awesome that he took the time to think about your email and answer you so honestly and thoughtfully.

Also, HRC? Meeting? In B'ham? Cool. Where and when?I may try to go if it's feasible with work. Maybe I'll drag my Gay Boyfriend along too. :))

[cleolinda.livejournal.com]

Here's the link to the info:

http://www.livejournal.com/users/cleolinda/201333.html?thread=4255093#t4255093

You might want to leave a comment saying you want to come--I don't know if they need a head count of any kind.

[dramedy.livejournal.com]

I love the icons..
My mom is librarian. and i might email this to her and my sister. They'll probably be just as po'd as i was. grrr

ON a side note, I squee'd when I read your name--I have the same name! SQUEEEeeEEEeeEEeeeeeEE!!!!!!!!!
XD <3 I think you are SOOoo cool for doing this and making a stand!! You ROCK!!

the right to personal censorship

[klytaimnestra.livejournal.com]

I think phrasing your objection as an objection to a bill that "takes away the right to personal censorship" is probably precisely the right way to go, and I mean "right" in the "right wing lunatic" sense - something that the right wing grasps. They WANT the right to censor things themselves. This is probably the weak point in this bigoted scumbag's argument: the right wants LESS government, not more. Any argument that points out that this is MORE government will show the weaknesses to his own constituency of similar right wing bigots. which is the only way this evil moron can be stopped.

[jwaneeta.livejournal.com]

I think your eforts (and Mr. Gaines response) are admirable. But I just heard from an Alabaman lawyer friend who counsels even more caution...in the sense of: this is a bill that will just go to the floor and quietly expire if nobody beards the evangelical lion.

I don't know what to think. My reaction is horror, as is yours. But I thought I'd pass her opinion along.

I've linked her and hope she weighs in with her own words.

[cleolinda.livejournal.com]

Yeah--someone else suggested that the whole point of this exercise is to get everyone to shriek OMG NOT THE BOOKS! and then for Allen and his people to go, "Well, how about we just keep homosexuality out of textbooks?," and everyone goes, "Whew! Sure thing!"

Yeah... NO.

I think one of the reasons I'm so up in arms about this is that I'm angry about the sheer assitude of the tactic itself. I would really like to have the kind of backlash that would make Allen and his type think twice before opening his mouth again. (He also sponsored an anti-gay marriage bill.) And seriously, if I have to find logical loopholes every time someone comes up with ridiculous shit like this, I'll do it. But yeah, I'd be very interested to hear what your friend has to say. Again: I'd rather win than be "right."

[linduvan.livejournal.com]

On a completely frivolous note, love your icons! Can I ask what font you're using?

[cleolinda.livejournal.com]

Silkscreen on the Lost icons--Flare on the Heroine Addict icons. I think you can find them both at dafont.com.

[ambiguousreason.livejournal.com]

I, too, get so nervous after I've spoken out with my opinion and then I get a reply, even on a small, more personal level. Like I take things way too personally or something.

"I'm such a bad fag." Heeeeee.

Very impressed by your point that censorship should remain on an individual level, as opposed to statewide. Those are the kinds of things I completely agree with and can reason through in my head, yet can't articulate so clearly.

I took both of the "Thank God for the pimp smugglers" icons. Those sunglasses? Are ugly. And they scream, "I'M GAY!! I'M GAY!!"

[maramala.livejournal.com]

I took both of the "Thank God for the pimp smugglers" icons. Those sunglasses? Are ugly. And they scream, "I'M GAY!! I'M GAY!!"

Great. Now you have me visualizing that screaming--with a lisp, even. :D

[infinitegraces]

Word.

Love your definition of the whole censorship thing. I totally agree with it.

And I can honestly say that if that bill were to be passed, I would be extremely disappointed if, when I go to college and were to attend in-state (I'm in Florence, btw), I were not able to check out a copy of, say, The Color Purple to do a report on it or just to read it.

What a person reads or hears does not always have a bad effect on them.

Our [state] legislature needs to understand this.

[edda.livejournal.com]

Your rep is extremely cool for writing back to help you get a perspective on how things work (cool reason isn't the stuff of Hollywood, but it sure helps get the job done) and I think your participation on any level can only be a good thing, because you're smart and funny and you care.

"Massive neurosis" is not really a good quality for any kind of leader, really.

All of them are like that, they just drink a lot. You'll be fine.

[cleolinda.livejournal.com]

Your rep is extremely cool for writing back to help you get a perspective on how things work

I thought so, too. It's a lot more Hollywood to go huff around and protest with badly-drawn signs, but that's the kind of thing that--well, it makes YOU feel like you've done something, but you've actually accomplished very little.

[foresthouse.livejournal.com]

You know, I do understand the Rep.'s point about us censoring what our children read, etc. BUT, I would hazard a guess (as a matter of fact I'd be willing to bet on it and possibly swear on it) that I would be a much less intellectually developed person if I had not had access (intentional or not) to books that were "too old for me" at a young age.
I understood satire in the fifth grade because no one told me I was too young to read A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court.
I got a new take on war from reading Catch-22 as a young adult.
I learned about child abuse and multiple personalities from the fascinating read of When Rabbit Howls (a true story) in about the seventh grade.
And, while I also read the more idyllic Ray Bradbury novels such as Dandelion Wine, as a sixth grader I thoroughly enjoyed Farenheit 451...the Temperature at Which Books Burn, in which I read about censorship...
I was fortunate enough to live with an English teacher and two older sisters who had a great range of books, from children's stories to great literature. But most children aren't that fortunate. One of the problems (in my view) with education today is the attempt to fit children into the learning level they "ought" to be at during a certain age. It may help some, but it stifles others, and in the end I think it is more detrimental than helpful.

Wow. I didn't mean to go on for so long. And I know that I'm preaching to the choir posting this here. Maybe I should write to the representative?

[sterling-sara.livejournal.com]

I know what you're talking about with the intellectual development through exposure. My source of knowledge on social issues and censorship comes from the internet, not books, but it's the same principle. I know I would be a very different person without that "untimely" knowledge... but I like who I am and wouldn't change it!

(If this is OT, apologies.)

[foresthouse.livejournal.com]

Oh, and P.S. Excellent response to the Rep.

[artemis-lizzie.livejournal.com]

"Thanks so much again.

Lauren "

Hey, had you meant to use your given name there, and not [Cleo]? I know you keep this journal semi-anonymous, and don't want you to end up with crazy people being after you or something.

[cleolinda.livejournal.com]

I did that on purpose, but so many people are leaving worried comments about it that I think I'll edit it out. Thanks. : )

[fba.livejournal.com]

You may be interested in a piece of legislation that we had in Britain for 12 years:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Section_28

The proposals for Alabama seem to go a fair bit further - but the whole idea of not 'promoting homosexuality' is completely unenforceable and just leads to very confused teachers and librarians.......

[cleolinda.livejournal.com]

It's totally unenforceable, which makes me angry because it makes the guy who proposed it look like a total idiot ("Uh... I guess we'll bury the books, and stuff...?"), and I don't like having total idiots in my legislature.

Funny--I was reading the article and thinking, "Somewhere, Ian McKellen is livid over this," and my eye wanders over to the photo on the page and... yep, Ian McKellen is livid over this. Heh.

[maeritrae.livejournal.com]

*cough* Cleo? I don't exactly want to draw attention to this, and someone may have already pointed this out, but...real name?

[cleolinda.livejournal.com]

Already pointed out. I did it on purpose, and it's only my first name--I realized that I can't exactly go around doing this as "Cleolinda Jones" and have any credibility with anyone local. But I may edit that out of the entry anyway, since it seems to distract people.

[starlights-1.livejournal.com]

I am very impressed with Mark Gaines reply to you, as well as your response. I didn't know that politicians were capable of replying to people who object what the government is doing. Your argument was great, let the individual decide what they will read, or in some cases, the parents of a child.

The icons are great by-the-way, I may not nab one, but they are fun to look at.

[p-tripp.livejournal.com]

I can't believe I ended up arguing for "the right of personal censorship," but hey, if that's the language the legislature will understand, I'll speak it

Well, you have to do what you have to do. I'm still inclined to think censorship of any kind (by the government) is wrong, and the idea of this bill passing scares the hell out of me!

But I think you're doing a wonderful job! You're getting responses, so obviously, you're getting somewhere. :D
Keep up the good work!

Cleo for president in '08! (Jon Stewart could be your running mate) :D