(no subject)
Oct. 27th, 2004 04:26 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
cleolindaWhoa. ![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
anniesj wrote a satirical entry about satirical violence to the President and ended up with the Secret Service on her doorstep. And now she has a permanent file with the FBI. I didn't get to read the entry, and naturally she's taken it down now, so I can't speak for the entry itself. I think she's handling it the best way she can now that the damage is done, but the point she makes in this new entry is extremely worth repeating: "I want people to be aware that what they say on their LJ can cause problems for them in RL, because I love all of you and I don't wish what happened to me on you. You are more than welcome to discuss this post in your journal, and you are more than welcome to link to it from your journal. [...] Please, feel free to make an example out of me. So share this with your friends. Tell them what can happen. It's beneficial to all of us to know that this can happen, and hopefully, it'll prevent something like this from happening again."
Now, there are a few separate issues here, and one is that of civil liberties and did the Secret Service overstep their bounds and honestly, I'm going to say they didn't here. And keep in mind that I think our civil liberties have been horribly eroded already. But, on the other hand, I just said in my journal yesterday that I would not be surprised if assassination attempts were made on either candidate. This is a particularly heated election and that's the Secret Service's job, to check out stuff like that. You would hope that they would be able to distinguish satire from actual threat, but again, I didn't see the entry itself so I can't say what kind of impression it gave. It's the Service's job to check things out. The permanent FBI file is unfortunate, but there you go.
It seems that someone from LJ turned Annie into the Secret Service, however, and apparently not because that person genuinely thought she was threatening the President, but to get revenge because of fandom politics. And if that's true? That person is an ass. A grade-A, I-don't-need-enemies-if-I-have-you, that-was-wholly-uncalled-for ass.
And the third--and most important--point: It is incredibly easy to forget that the internet is not a magical playworld where we can say things with real-world impunity. I've done it myself. It's easy to forget that just because you interact mostly with friends online that they are not the only attention you are attracting, that there's always Google, and that there's always going to be someone who doesn't like you, and unlike in the real world where you can say things and have them disappear into time and thin air, your online interactions are captured in print. Please, please, please be careful with what you say. Not just about the President, or political figures, or any of that. I've started being more careful about writing unlocked entries mentioning family members, for example,and throwing hissyfits about plagiarism. Time and time again I've seen people spew things that they would never say in real life, because it's the internet and you almost feel like the people you're talking to aren't real--you'll tell them that they're fucking morons and should be killed by an axe to the head because they don't like the same movies/actors/anime/My Little Ponies you do. (No, seriously. "My Little Pony" and "You should die, you fucking moron." I actually saw this earlier today.) So please--this needs to be a wake up call that you are talking to real people, and that real people are listening whether you want them to or not, and that it's incredibly easy for you to say something you do not mean in any literal sense, and/or for someone to take what you said the wrong way.
anniesj wrote a satirical entry about satirical violence to the President and ended up with the Secret Service on her doorstep. And now she has a permanent file with the FBI. I didn't get to read the entry, and naturally she's taken it down now, so I can't speak for the entry itself. I think she's handling it the best way she can now that the damage is done, but the point she makes in this new entry is extremely worth repeating: "I want people to be aware that what they say on their LJ can cause problems for them in RL, because I love all of you and I don't wish what happened to me on you. You are more than welcome to discuss this post in your journal, and you are more than welcome to link to it from your journal. [...] Please, feel free to make an example out of me. So share this with your friends. Tell them what can happen. It's beneficial to all of us to know that this can happen, and hopefully, it'll prevent something like this from happening again."Now, there are a few separate issues here, and one is that of civil liberties and did the Secret Service overstep their bounds and honestly, I'm going to say they didn't here. And keep in mind that I think our civil liberties have been horribly eroded already. But, on the other hand, I just said in my journal yesterday that I would not be surprised if assassination attempts were made on either candidate. This is a particularly heated election and that's the Secret Service's job, to check out stuff like that. You would hope that they would be able to distinguish satire from actual threat, but again, I didn't see the entry itself so I can't say what kind of impression it gave. It's the Service's job to check things out. The permanent FBI file is unfortunate, but there you go.
It seems that someone from LJ turned Annie into the Secret Service, however, and apparently not because that person genuinely thought she was threatening the President, but to get revenge because of fandom politics. And if that's true? That person is an ass. A grade-A, I-don't-need-enemies-if-I-have-you, that-was-wholly-uncalled-for ass.
And the third--and most important--point: It is incredibly easy to forget that the internet is not a magical playworld where we can say things with real-world impunity. I've done it myself. It's easy to forget that just because you interact mostly with friends online that they are not the only attention you are attracting, that there's always Google, and that there's always going to be someone who doesn't like you, and unlike in the real world where you can say things and have them disappear into time and thin air, your online interactions are captured in print. Please, please, please be careful with what you say. Not just about the President, or political figures, or any of that. I've started being more careful about writing unlocked entries mentioning family members, for example,
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2004-10-27 02:31 pm (UTC)It's clearly satire.
no subject
Date: 2004-10-27 02:32 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-10-27 02:36 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-10-27 02:41 pm (UTC)To me, the inappropriate behavior was that of the person who turned her in, not the people are required to check things out.
no subject
Date: 2004-10-27 02:44 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-10-27 02:57 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-10-27 02:33 pm (UTC)And the third--and most important--point: It is incredibly easy to forget that the internet is not a magical playworld where we can say things with real-world impunity. I've done it myself.
::nods head vigorously::
no subject
Date: 2004-10-27 02:34 pm (UTC)Speaking of that, I read the TWoP recaps of Lost, and some of the things sounded eerily like your recaps. Do you read theirs or do the read yours or something? I must say I think yours are funnier, but I noticed similarities.
no subject
Date: 2004-10-27 02:35 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-10-27 02:46 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-10-27 02:52 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-10-27 10:32 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-10-27 02:35 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-10-27 04:00 pm (UTC)Harassment and threats are illegal for anyone, ESPECIALLY if the threats involve the President of the USA. As much as I think Bush is an A-Hole with a capital "A", even I wouldn't go around making remarks about harming him or putting him in danger.
In this case, it was just satire and only meant to be taken as such, but what if it's not in the future? Potential threat to national security, right there. The FBI was doing their job - no more, no less. They weren't poking around where they shouldn't be, since LJ is a public forum.
This incident is very unfortunate, but the only thing I see here that's morally reprehensible is the person reporting this girl because of a fandom-related grudge.
BTW - I *love* your icon. ^___^
no subject
Date: 2004-10-27 04:45 pm (UTC)Unless she's got
no subject
Date: 2004-10-27 07:13 pm (UTC)I do understand what you are saying, and I actually agree. But still. I think in this case, the paranoia was taken too far.
no subject
Date: 2004-10-27 02:41 pm (UTC)What I'm really not feeling is all of the people in the comments that are all "OMG BUSH IS SO EV01 IT'S HIS FAULT BIG BROTHER", when it's really nothing new. I mean, yes, the Patriot Act gives them some new freedoms to search things out, but this? This was good old fashioned stuff.
no subject
Date: 2004-10-28 07:55 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-10-27 02:42 pm (UTC)If that's the case, I can't see from a legal standpoint, how the Secret Service had the right to investigate her. I'm sure my former Constitutional professor would have a ball.
no subject
Date: 2004-10-27 03:41 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-10-27 02:42 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-10-27 02:42 pm (UTC)As for the person reporting her... er. OMGWTF seems to cover it.
no subject
Date: 2004-10-27 02:46 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-10-27 03:01 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-10-27 04:53 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-10-27 03:01 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-10-27 03:04 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-10-27 03:08 pm (UTC)However, during the last few years the civil liberties of Americans have been eroded to an extreme degree in the name of fighting terrorism. People can be held indefinitely without access to legal counsel, without bail, without a trial, without any means to clear their name or get out, as long as the government claims that they're a terrorist or know something about terrorists.
Understand: if it's a case of, say, mistaken identity-- another person with the same name is the real suspect-- the person being held has no opportunity to argue it, and can rot in jail for years. Or until they die.
The government has proposed legalizing torture.
All these things start with non-citizens, and then get extended to citizens.
So to report someone for a terroristic threat is equivalent of lodging a false accusation of murder. Don't do it.
And if you think the US should return to the rule of law and to the right of an accused to a trial, so if some dumbass makes that sort of accusation against you, you don't have to merely thank your lucky stars that it wasn't taken seriously but actually have rights--
Vote for Kerry.
no subject
Date: 2004-10-27 03:20 pm (UTC)Honestly while it was unfortunate, and the asshat that turned her in is that, but I don't think the Secret Service were totally out of line. It was their job, and they've always been like that. It's just a shame that personal grudges strike again.
no subject
Date: 2004-10-27 04:38 pm (UTC)P.S. I friended you, hope you don't mind. Love the recaps. :)
no subject
Date: 2004-10-27 04:51 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-10-28 01:45 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-10-27 06:02 pm (UTC)This has nothing to do with the topic I'm just posting it everywhere http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homo_floresiensis ha hobbits exist!
Yes we are all taklking to real people. So don't be mean otherwise they'll turn you into the Secret Service and you'll go to the chair.
no subject
Date: 2004-10-27 10:48 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-10-30 03:05 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-10-27 06:34 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-10-28 04:58 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-10-28 08:29 am (UTC)First, the Secret Service is supposed to check out any threat or potential threat to the people they protect. They don't care if it's satire or not. If there is no real threat, as in this case, they drop it and move on. Having a file with the FBI is not such a big deal, many people have one with no adverse consequences.
Secondly, the NSA has been reading email for as long as email has existed. The Echelon system that made such a big splash a couple of years ago has been around since the late '60's. Plenty of corporate and private agencies with far less oversight then the government read your email and LJ posts also. As a network admin I have the ability and the legal right to read every email, IM conversation or any other network traffic that passes through our network.
In short folks, there is no privacy on the internet, none. Please keep that in mind when you post.
no subject
Date: 2004-10-28 09:47 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-10-28 09:56 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-10-28 10:33 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-10-30 03:07 pm (UTC)Just wondering.
Amen!
Date: 2004-10-28 12:15 pm (UTC)I'm still seething a bit that that the young lady has a file somewhere, tax money went to pay those two agents to go up for some coffee to find out she's no threat to the man outside of a voting booth and all this in the name of fannish grudges?
The skepticism over whether it actually happened is understandable, but this is exactly the sort of thing the Secret Service exists to investigate (they can't all be on POTUS detail after all,) and it's not up to them to grade posts for style, wit and irony.
Here's hoping anyone who knows who the asshat that put them onto her is recognizes the viper in the bosom of fandom and excises it.
no subject
Date: 2004-10-28 02:59 pm (UTC)And the third--and most important--point: It is incredibly easy to forget that the internet is not a magical playworld where we can say things with real-world impunity.
Yes, it's 'public domain'. The world is reading. Btw, I'm not sure of the exact copywrite wording, but don't you essentially lose rights on stuff you post on public domain? Perhaps I'm thinking of patent law.
Yarha, Truce or Consequences