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cleolindaLet's follow up on the post about the Magicians clusterfuck, how about it?
.
In case you're just joining us, let me be clear that this in reference to the controversy that the main character was killed off last week, in a plot development that was intentionally left "ambiguous" as to whether his death was a portrayal of suicide or not. The post I wrote up top, while as concisely comprehensive as I could make it, also gets a little raw emotionally. This post is just a bit of a debriefing; I don't go into descriptions, fan distress, or ideation at all here. Even so, take care of yourselves and give this a pass if you're not sure.
Here's my follow-up discussion on Twitter; I decided to hang out in my mentions for a good long while, particularly since I've spent a lot of time away from it over the last, uh, year.
.
In case you're just joining us, let me be clear that this in reference to the controversy that the main character was killed off last week, in a plot development that was intentionally left "ambiguous" as to whether his death was a portrayal of suicide or not. The post I wrote up top, while as concisely comprehensive as I could make it, also gets a little raw emotionally. This post is just a bit of a debriefing; I don't go into descriptions, fan distress, or ideation at all here. Even so, take care of yourselves and give this a pass if you're not sure.
Here's my follow-up discussion on Twitter; I decided to hang out in my mentions for a good long while, particularly since I've spent a lot of time away from it over the last, uh, year.
I posted the link to Tumblr as well, since that's where Magicians fandom primarily seems to live; I admit that I decided to lurk among the reblog notifications a little, to make sure that everyone was doing okay. Given the "contagion" effect that a trigger subject like that has, I wanted to be sure people were adequately warned and not harmed by any doing of mine. Between comments there and on Twitter, it seems like, and I hope that, posting was a net good.
That said, there's been a new development, which is that people noticed a "Suicide King" card in the episode (I was not aware of this except as a movie title, somehow). It's kind of blowing the whole "ambiguity" thing out of the water, although I guess when you have to put a suicide hotline at the end of your show, you didn't really have it in the first place.
Also, here's a Their Own Network Dot Com callout, "Queerness and Death in The Magicians," that was mysteriously scrubbed from the site (I read it myself while it was live, and I can confirm that it's gone as of this writing).
Meanwhile, Lev Grossman has actually said a few things, going from "kind of a punch in the gut" on a podcast to stating that the show runners are "in good faith about the show" on Facebook. I include the latter in the interest of fairness.
The more I thought about all this, I came to a certain essential clarity on the whole subject, which is: there are actually a few separate issues involved, and one of them is how Quentin was killed off, and whether that portrayal was irresponsible. But another issue is that a character who represented a rarely-seen intersection of identities (queer, mentally ill, neurodivergent) was killed off at all. The "how" matters, but no matter "how," he's still gone. And that's one thing I don't think any producers can tweet their way around, even though they are currently attempting it. The word "whimsical" was used. It's not going well.
On the other hand, maybe Quentin's not dead after all, despite the producers' (suspiciously specific?) insistence. If it is a Jon Snow deception, well: I'm sorry to be the one who has to break the news that you are not, in fact, making Game of Thrones, but maybe it's time to come to terms with the fact that not all stunts work for all shows. Do not leave people out here for a year to struggle with the things you "ambiguously" managed to imply about their lives and chances for happiness here on Shithole Earth, just so you can pop back up with Dark Lord/Force Ghost/Flashback Quentin next season. The network had to put a suicide hotline at the end of the episode. Get real about this.
So. I started asking myself, what outcome am I really hoping for? Like, what was I writing that post for, other than to reach out to other fans? Honestly, I want the show—and the Quentin story—to get back to a point where I can watch it again. No matter how eternally resentful I might remain over this whole [gestures at everything], just—think of something, and soon. Don't apologize if you can't muster the sincerity to do so—just say that the viewers' passion has convinced you that Quentin really resonates with fans! You realize now how culturally important the hero of your amazing whimsical revolutionary show has been, and you've decided you'd just be so honored to honor the passion they are honoring you with! You will bring Quentin back in some form—tune in next year to see if his return will be equally soul-crushing!
The road to hell is paved with good intentions. If the road back is paved with nonpology bullshit, then so be it, so long as we get going.
I honestly do not want this to screw over the cast, whose work I loved, or for the show to collapse. I just also am not sure how people are supposed to go forward with watching the work of show runners who said this in 2017:
Now is the time to re-examine some choices, maybe.
Something else I think I vaguely alluded to was that writing that whole post was a little-bit-utterly-terrifying for me—for several reasons, all of them anxiety. But I just finally got mad enough about the whole finale situation that I sat down Sunday morning and started writing. Eventually, I reverted to unfinished graduate degree mode: CITATIONS. And then I spent that day and the next beating a rant into shape with a linkspam hammer.
There's a part of you that asks, Why am I this upset about a television show? And there's a part of you that answers, You know that this is about more than a show.
Isn't it silly to be this upset? You know how many other people are, and you don't think they're silly. Isn't that why you wanted to say something in the first place?
I feel extremely scared and vulnerable for about fifteen reasons. Well, some of those reasons are "because it's been so long since you've posted," and you're going to have to confront that someday, regardless. As for the other reasons... do you think it'll help anyone?
Maybe. Okay, then.
But... what if I post something and everyone hates it? What if I make a fool of myself? Well, that's why you put in your best effort and your best judgment. Beyond that—that's how writing is, isn't it?
The difference here is, I went into writing that post knowing that I needed to be responsible; I made people aware of what they were about to read; and if someone had said, "Hey, this phrasing right here may be harmful, you need to reconsider it or put better warnings for it," I would have. Particularly for a subject as sensitive as this. It's why, in fact, I was keeping an eye on people's responses on my own initiative. So, yeah—that's how writing is. No, you can't please everyone. Even I don't try to. But I try to take the temperature generally after I post something. Get a big-picture view of how it went over. And then I care about what that picture shows me. I did that with the reviews of the book I published a thousand years ago as well—was glad for the times when it did make people happy, and used the negative criticism as a focus for how I could improve as a writer. I'm not out here as someone who only ever gives criticism, and only gives it without ever experiencing it, I swear.
And you know, yeah, you have the right to make any kind of art you want, make as dark and edgy a statement as you want, crush people emotionally if that's your thing. And the people to whom you offer that art, whose consumption you court, have the right to feel some way about that in return. If you get an overwhelmingly negative response? That's on you and your choices. Not on "oversensitive" fans, not "salty" shippers, not people who "just don't get how art works."
People might not like your art, and you might not like their feelings. You might decide not to care about those feelings. They might decide not to care about your art. You, as a writer, artist, creator, can choose to do what you want with that information. Maybe that turns into some sort of impasse for you. But that's the deal; we all make it, and we all have to negotiate it. That's the deal.
That said, there's been a new development, which is that people noticed a "Suicide King" card in the episode (I was not aware of this except as a movie title, somehow). It's kind of blowing the whole "ambiguity" thing out of the water, although I guess when you have to put a suicide hotline at the end of your show, you didn't really have it in the first place.
Also, here's a Their Own Network Dot Com callout, "Queerness and Death in The Magicians," that was mysteriously scrubbed from the site (I read it myself while it was live, and I can confirm that it's gone as of this writing).
Meanwhile, Lev Grossman has actually said a few things, going from "kind of a punch in the gut" on a podcast to stating that the show runners are "in good faith about the show" on Facebook. I include the latter in the interest of fairness.
The more I thought about all this, I came to a certain essential clarity on the whole subject, which is: there are actually a few separate issues involved, and one of them is how Quentin was killed off, and whether that portrayal was irresponsible. But another issue is that a character who represented a rarely-seen intersection of identities (queer, mentally ill, neurodivergent) was killed off at all. The "how" matters, but no matter "how," he's still gone. And that's one thing I don't think any producers can tweet their way around, even though they are currently attempting it. The word "whimsical" was used. It's not going well.
On the other hand, maybe Quentin's not dead after all, despite the producers' (suspiciously specific?) insistence. If it is a Jon Snow deception, well: I'm sorry to be the one who has to break the news that you are not, in fact, making Game of Thrones, but maybe it's time to come to terms with the fact that not all stunts work for all shows. Do not leave people out here for a year to struggle with the things you "ambiguously" managed to imply about their lives and chances for happiness here on Shithole Earth, just so you can pop back up with Dark Lord/Force Ghost/Flashback Quentin next season. The network had to put a suicide hotline at the end of the episode. Get real about this.
So. I started asking myself, what outcome am I really hoping for? Like, what was I writing that post for, other than to reach out to other fans? Honestly, I want the show—and the Quentin story—to get back to a point where I can watch it again. No matter how eternally resentful I might remain over this whole [gestures at everything], just—think of something, and soon. Don't apologize if you can't muster the sincerity to do so—just say that the viewers' passion has convinced you that Quentin really resonates with fans! You realize now how culturally important the hero of your amazing whimsical revolutionary show has been, and you've decided you'd just be so honored to honor the passion they are honoring you with! You will bring Quentin back in some form—tune in next year to see if his return will be equally soul-crushing!
The road to hell is paved with good intentions. If the road back is paved with nonpology bullshit, then so be it, so long as we get going.
@cleolinda: I'll add, I keep saying this over and over and over again: some of what we got on The Magicians was so beautiful that I'm ANGRY I can't recommend it to people after this finale. Because I would have, despite what a hard/bizarre watch the show was already at times.
@cleolinda: What are we even doing if I can't recommend a lizard-hallucination feminist-rage '80s musical episode? *What are we even doing*
@cleolinda: The Magicians belonged to my favorite media genre, which is I Can Just Describe This To You Factually And It Is Wild As Hell Without Me Even Exaggerating. DAMMIT.
I honestly do not want this to screw over the cast, whose work I loved, or for the show to collapse. I just also am not sure how people are supposed to go forward with watching the work of show runners who said this in 2017:
“Writing deaths of beloved characters is not hard. None of them — honestly,” McNamara told Inverse earlier this month. Gamble agreed, admitting that emotionally crushing the audience is actually “delightful, truly the opposite of hard. I loved writing those deaths.”
Now is the time to re-examine some choices, maybe.
Something else I think I vaguely alluded to was that writing that whole post was a little-bit-utterly-terrifying for me—for several reasons, all of them anxiety. But I just finally got mad enough about the whole finale situation that I sat down Sunday morning and started writing. Eventually, I reverted to unfinished graduate degree mode: CITATIONS. And then I spent that day and the next beating a rant into shape with a linkspam hammer.
There's a part of you that asks, Why am I this upset about a television show? And there's a part of you that answers, You know that this is about more than a show.
Isn't it silly to be this upset? You know how many other people are, and you don't think they're silly. Isn't that why you wanted to say something in the first place?
I feel extremely scared and vulnerable for about fifteen reasons. Well, some of those reasons are "because it's been so long since you've posted," and you're going to have to confront that someday, regardless. As for the other reasons... do you think it'll help anyone?
Maybe. Okay, then.
But... what if I post something and everyone hates it? What if I make a fool of myself? Well, that's why you put in your best effort and your best judgment. Beyond that—that's how writing is, isn't it?
The difference here is, I went into writing that post knowing that I needed to be responsible; I made people aware of what they were about to read; and if someone had said, "Hey, this phrasing right here may be harmful, you need to reconsider it or put better warnings for it," I would have. Particularly for a subject as sensitive as this. It's why, in fact, I was keeping an eye on people's responses on my own initiative. So, yeah—that's how writing is. No, you can't please everyone. Even I don't try to. But I try to take the temperature generally after I post something. Get a big-picture view of how it went over. And then I care about what that picture shows me. I did that with the reviews of the book I published a thousand years ago as well—was glad for the times when it did make people happy, and used the negative criticism as a focus for how I could improve as a writer. I'm not out here as someone who only ever gives criticism, and only gives it without ever experiencing it, I swear.
And you know, yeah, you have the right to make any kind of art you want, make as dark and edgy a statement as you want, crush people emotionally if that's your thing. And the people to whom you offer that art, whose consumption you court, have the right to feel some way about that in return. If you get an overwhelmingly negative response? That's on you and your choices. Not on "oversensitive" fans, not "salty" shippers, not people who "just don't get how art works."
People might not like your art, and you might not like their feelings. You might decide not to care about those feelings. They might decide not to care about your art. You, as a writer, artist, creator, can choose to do what you want with that information. Maybe that turns into some sort of impasse for you. But that's the deal; we all make it, and we all have to negotiate it. That's the deal.
